Philosophy Now Forum

Lacewing wrote: ↑Sat Sep 01, 2018 3:11 am

Dalek Prime wrote: ↑Sat Sep 01, 2018 1:59 am I've been predated upon by men as well, Lacewing. And I'm aware of the constant sexualizing by men of women. I feel quite bad for women's plight in this. But I don't have an answer to it. Either one empathizes with women, or one doesn't, or cant care. I'm single because I don't want to make women uncomfortable, knowing what they go through on a daily basis. I would prefer to be alone than to be part of the problem women have to deal with. I'd rather be able to live with myself, and sleep peacefully at night, than to hurt women or children.

Empathy is key to solving things though. But many don't have it, or it's underdeveloped.

Thanks (again) for your thoughtful answer. Yes, it is hard to know what to do. If women speak up or fight against it, it seems they are beaten down more -- accused of terrible things. It's vicious. There are lots of good, aware, honorable men, though -- which is what puts the other men to shame, and highlights the higher capability of men. It just seems like people need to learn to master themselves! I don't know how that occurs, other than through evolution. Dangerous world in the meantime.

If you cannot trust your behavior, then it is very honorable to protect others from that. But if you are in control of yourself, and a respectful and good person, then it would seem a shame not to be able to share that with someone and expand the potential for joy in life... so don't give up on that. We humans seem to be evolving at lightening speed right now. Or maybe that's just my wishful thinking. Whatever the case... there's always more we can learn to be and experience during the course of our life.

I wonder how people gain empathy? If it's something a person must be born with, or if there's a way to instill it in them?

I do trust my behaviour. It's just that I'm not aggressive in making my feelings clear about a potential partner, and so do not pursue it, because they are usually attracted to the fact that I am gentle with them, and I do not like the thought of betraying that island of security they find with me.

Empathy? I don't know really. I've always had it, so I can't speak to how it comes about. I think experience can lead to empathy, if a person is open to it. But does it lead to genuine feeling of emotion for the other, or just a superficial understanding that can easily be washed away? I don't know.

I do think self-control is important, as you say. Empathy makes me want to control my baser instincts, so self-control for me gives me a reward in terms of peace of mind and equanimity. Those without empathy wouldnt get that reward, and probably have a harder time controlling themselves. I'm just guessing on human nature, though. But I think I'm right on this. We need impulse control, and it's easier if one has an internal reward system for doing so.

Addendum. Thinking a bit more on this, I do have a rigid belief system of social interaction with lines I will not cross, for to cross those lines would be like smoking crack for the first time, and wanting more. Or tasting the forbidden fruit in Eden, if I may use that analogy. Those lines are paramount and sacrosanct to me.

1. Youth are off limits entirely.
2. I have absolutely no right to touch a woman in an intimate way, unless she is clearly, and I do mean clearly, consenting and okay with it.
3. Sexual verbal intimation is also off limits, unless, again, I can tell she is also flirting with me. And if I'm wrong on those cues, I will back off and apologize.

Perhaps my time in the Army also helped. We always called women 'Ma'am', and showed due respect. Showing respect at the outset establishes proper social interaction.

Btw, thank you for bringing this up, Lace. It's appreciated. You have me really pondering what it is that makes a 'good' person. We'll talk further on this, if you wish. I haven't been this interested in a line of enquiry in some time. This is what the forum should always be about; real, honest discussion.

Dalek Prime wrote: ↑Sat Sep 01, 2018 12:26 pm Empathy makes me want to control my baser instincts, so self-control for me gives me a reward in terms of peace of mind and equanimity. Those without empathy wouldnt get that reward, and probably have a harder time controlling themselves. I'm just guessing on human nature, though. But I think I'm right on this. We need impulse control, and it's easier if one has an internal reward system for doing so.

This is very eye-opening! It makes perfect sense. There has to be an internal reward system for having self-control.

So... wow... thinking of so many who are theists without this internal reward system. Their reward system is EXTERNAL!

Dalek Prime wrote: ↑Sat Sep 01, 2018 12:26 pmI do not like the thought of betraying that island of security they find with me.

Yes, we can be scary and unpredictable monsters sometimes, can't we? But the fact that you even consider and care about such a thing shows that your awareness is being bigger than your ego. You see the ripples that travel beyond the ego satisfaction. I am fascinated by such things... so this discussion is interesting to me too.

I remember pivotal times in my life when a cosmic curtain was pulled aside to reveal so much more than what I had been seeing. It was both overwhelming and liberating. I'd go through phases: Questioning whether I'd really seen it, wishing I'd not seen it and could crawl back into my familiar shell/life, then wondering at the implications of what I'd seen, trying it out, and then embracing it, and it becoming a "normal" landscape from which to experience.

Perhaps my journey is as it is because I've always felt that I belonged, and I welcomed the experience. Nature -- on its many levels -- inspires me to explore. I don't know why -- I've just always felt that way. To question rather than believing the ego. My earliest memories are of before I learned to talk, and my mind was already making assessments. I knew that my parents didn't know what they were doing. And although I had to rely on them, I assessed the ways in which they couldn't be trusted. I saw their patterns and their fears. I knew what they needed. Throughout childhood, I remember sparing their ego because I knew they needed it -- and I didn't know how to deal with the fallout otherwise. Like when my father would try to tell me how things were, and I knew he didn't really know. I would act impressed anyway. I loved him and wanted to protect him. I feel, like you, I was born with empathy.

Dalek Prime wrote: ↑Sat Sep 01, 2018 12:26 pmThinking a bit more on this, I do have a rigid belief system of social interaction with lines I will not cross

Me too... I understand this. There are some things that I refuse to allow myself to ignore -- which is what I would be doing, considering the landscape I see. Children are amazing little spirits that should be regarded with a reverence that many adults have screwed themselves out of receiving. I know, from my own experience, what children can perceive. I'm aware of them observing me when I attend social interactions where I encounter them. I don't want to model masks and egos and superiority for them -- they see enough of that! I model honesty and openness and playfulness for them so that they are reassured that adults can live that way too. Just as a few adults in my life did for me when I was a child.

As for interacting with adults now... I recognize the child/spirit in them, while dealing with the adult ego. I've often used the analogy of people being actors on a stage. When it seems the time and environment are appropriate, I may storm the stage and throw the scripts in the air, and make a commotion to disrupt the stage show. But I do not mistake the people for their acts. I may just think their act stinks. People have done the same for me... and although it was baffling or annoying, I was ultimately glad for it. I do not want to live on a stage. I only want to act on a stage for entertainment.

The people I've chosen to have close to me in my life, are treasures. Much love and joy are so sweet to share. We are honest about ourselves and about each other. It's very refreshing. We value the authenticity we have. And although I spent many years of my life not fathoming my "dark side", nor wanting to ponder what I might be capable of doing with it, I seem to be in a phase of discovering that it's not evil... it can simply be a handy tool to play and explore with. I think it's important to respond authentically for each situation rather than catering to a certain identity.

Dalek Prime wrote: ↑Sat Sep 01, 2018 12:26 pmPerhaps my time in the Army also helped. We always called women 'Ma'am', and showed due respect. Showing respect at the outset establishes proper social interaction.

That makes perfect sense... and it's interesting for me to consider that constructive element of a military experience -- the potential for personal mastery and awareness-building -- as opposed to the destructive effects it can have. If you feel inspired to share, I'd be interested in hearing your perspective on that experience in relation to yourself. How did it help? How did it hurt?

Dalek Prime wrote: ↑Sat Sep 01, 2018 12:26 pmBtw, thank you for bringing this up, Lace. It's appreciated. You have me really pondering what it is that makes a 'good' person. We'll talk further on this, if you wish. I haven't been this interested in a line of enquiry in some time. This is what the forum should always be about; real, honest discussion.

Thank you too. I love thoughtful discussions. It's too bad that this forum is often just about grandstanding or finding ways to throw poop at anyone who says anything. It makes me wary to reveal too much depth. Plus, there seems to be an inexplicably high percentage of really whacked-out members. I shudder to think that it actually represents the broader state of humankind. I'm hoping it's more a matter of some people being drawn here to convince themselves they're intelligent and sane for being here. (That's a whole 'nother topic.)