Philosophy Now Forum

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:56 am Where is the morality in this?

Woman who complained about noisy mosque jailed for blasphemy
Prosecutors allege she committed blasphemy against Islam by complaining the Muslim call to prayer was being played too loudly near her home
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 01191.html

An Indonesian court has sentenced a Buddhist woman to 18 months in prison for blasphemy after she was accused of insulting Islam.

Meiliana, a 44-year-old ethnic Chinese woman, had complained the Muslim call to prayer, which is repeated five times a day, was being played too loudly at the mosque near her house in North Sumatra.

Prosecutors alleged she had violated the country’s criminal code by committing blasphemy against Islam, the dominant faith in the world’s most populous Muslim nation.

In July 2016, mobs burned and ransacked at least 14 Buddhist temples throughout Tanjung Balai, a port town on Sumatra, following reports of Meiliana’s complaint about a mosque’s noisy loudspeakers.

Apparently it was reported those Muslims who burnt the Buddhist temples were only sentenced to a few months jailed.

What I read further is, Meiliana had only complained to her group of friends but was overhead by some Muslims who then complained to the authorities. She did not complain in Facebook nor put that in writing anywhere.

What is most sickening is the Muslim apologists who cannot see through the evil ethos of Islam per se as reflected in the Quran.

The above is grounded merely on some illusory God which is impossible to be real.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:34 am

-1- wrote: ↑Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:11 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:56 am Where is the morality in this?

Don't mess with the Muslims.

Loud and clear.

You had to ask?

Look like you have resigned and surrendered to that threat from Muslims and TROP?
Note the following [there are many similar ones];

• 3:151. We [Allah] shall cast terror [R3B: l-ruʿ'ba] into the hearts of those [infidels] who disbelieve because they [infidels] ascribe unto Allah partners [ShRK: ashrakū idols and deities], for which no warrant hath been revealed. Their [infidels] habitation is the Fire, and hapless the abode of the wrong doers [l-ẓālimīna] [infidels].
  
  8:12. When thy Lord inspired the angels, (saying:) I [Allah] am with you. So make those who believe [Muslims] stand firm. I [Allah] will throw fear [R3B: l-ruʿ'ba: terror] into the hearts of those [infidels] who disbelieve. Then smite [DRB: idrib; strike] the necks and smite of them each finger.

The point with critical thinking in Philosophy is we must find out the relevant root causes.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:34 am [
Note the following [there are many similar ones];

• 3:151. We [Allah] shall cast terror [R3B: l-ruʿ'ba] into the hearts of those [infidels] who disbelieve because they [infidels] ascribe unto Allah partners [ShRK: ashrakū idols and deities], for which no warrant hath been revealed. Their [infidels] habitation is the Fire, and hapless the abode of the wrong doers [l-ẓālimīna] [infidels].
  
  8:12. When thy Lord inspired the angels, (saying:) I [Allah] am with you. So make those who believe [Muslims] stand firm. I [Allah] will throw fear [R3B: l-ruʿ'ba: terror] into the hearts of those [infidels] who disbelieve. Then smite [DRB: idrib; strike] the necks and smite of them each finger.

The point with critical thinking in Philosophy is we must find out the relevant root causes.

-1- wrote: ↑Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:49 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:34 am

• 3:151. We [Allah] shall cast terror [R3B: l-ruʿ'ba] into the hearts of those [infidels] who disbelieve because they [infidels] ascribe unto Allah partners [ShRK: ashrakū idols and deities], for which no warrant hath been revealed. Their [infidels] habitation is the Fire, and hapless the abode of the wrong doers [l-ẓālimīna] [infidels].
  
  8:12. When thy Lord inspired the angels, (saying:) I [Allah] am with you. So make those who believe [Muslims] stand firm. I [Allah] will throw fear [R3B: l-ruʿ'ba: terror] into the hearts of those [infidels] who disbelieve. Then smite [DRB: idrib; strike] the necks and smite of them each finger.

The point with critical thinking in Philosophy is we must find out the relevant root causes.

This does not apply to Christians or to Jews.

-1- wrote: ↑Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:49 am There is a complex view by Muslims (as written in the Koran) that Moses and Jesus were forerunners of Muhammad,

-1- wrote: ↑Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:49 am and they were both prophets; therefore anyone who professes to believe the forerunner prophets is NOT an infidel.

-1- wrote: ↑Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:49 am The modern era has ushered in a political climate in which this doctrine has been put to sleep.

-1- wrote: ↑Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:49 am Incidentally, this doctrine was put to sleep at a very early age of Islam, when in SW Europe the Arabs and the Christians vied for possessing Spain, and in SE Europe, where the Ottoman Turks ran over the Christian kingdoms there.

-1- wrote: ↑Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:49 am Much like the USA touts being a Christian nation, yet it allows, nay, fosters killing innocent people by the hundreds of thousands. Direct contradiction of the commandment "Thou shalt not kill".

-1- wrote: ↑Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:49 am The sad truth is that while religion may have and has during all human existence been an ideological justification for war, killing, and assimilation via proselytizing, it has never been the CAUSE of war... wars are caused by diplomatic breakdowns of how to divvy up wealth and livelihood. In other words, wars are caused by greed or else a desperate fight for survival, and religion is a mere ideological tool in aiding war.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:39 am

-1- wrote: ↑Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:49 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:34 am

• 3:151. We [Allah] shall cast terror [R3B: l-ruʿ'ba] into the hearts of those [infidels] who disbelieve because they [infidels] ascribe unto Allah partners [ShRK: ashrakū idols and deities], for which no warrant hath been revealed. Their [infidels] habitation is the Fire, and hapless the abode of the wrong doers [l-ẓālimīna] [infidels].
  
  8:12. When thy Lord inspired the angels, (saying:) I [Allah] am with you. So make those who believe [Muslims] stand firm. I [Allah] will throw fear [R3B: l-ruʿ'ba: terror] into the hearts of those [infidels] who disbelieve. Then smite [DRB: idrib; strike] the necks and smite of them each finger.

The point with critical thinking in Philosophy is we must find out the relevant root causes.

This does not apply to Christians or to Jews. There is a complex view by Muslims (as written in the Koran) that Moses and Jesus were forerunners of Muhammad, and they were both prophets; therefore anyone who professes to believe the forerunner prophets is NOT an infidel.

You are not up to date with TROP and the Quran.
Note Chapter 1 of the Quran which is repeated numerous times [18?] a day by Muslims.
https://www.noblequran.com/translation/

• 1. In the Name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.
  
  2. All the praises and thanks be to Allah, the Lord of the 'Alamin (mankind, jinns and all that exists).
  
  3. The Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.
  
  4. The Only Owner (and the Only Ruling Judge) of the Day of Recompense (i.e. the Day of Resurrection)
  
  5. You (Alone) we worship, and You (Alone) we ask for help (for each and everything).
  
  6. Guide us to the Straight Way
  
  7. The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace, not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians).

The points bolded are in () but they are supported by other verses in the Quran.
The Jews and Christians are heavily condemned and dehumanized in various verses in the Quran for corrupting the Torah and Gospels [Injil]. The are condemned as infidels.

• 5:51. O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as Auliya' (friends, protectors, helpers, etc.), they are but Auliya' to one another. And if any amongst you takes them as Auliya', then surely he is one of them. Verily, Allah guides not those people who are the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong-doers and unjust).

The only Jews and Christian that Allah recognized as true Muslims are those who are the original believers before the Torah an Gospels were corrupted.
There is no more uncorrupted Torah and Gospel at present, so all Jews and Christians at present reading the corrupted Torah and Gospels are to be regarded as infidels.

The modern era has ushered in a political climate in which this doctrine has been put to sleep.

Incidentally, this doctrine was put to sleep at a very early age of Islam, when in SW Europe the Arabs and the Christians vied for possessing Spain, and in SE Europe, where the Ottoman Turks ran over the Christian kingdoms there.

Much like the USA touts being a Christian nation, yet it allows, nay, fosters killing innocent people by the hundreds of thousands. Direct contradiction of the commandment "Thou shalt not kill".

The USA is governed by the US Constitution not the Bible.
The overriding law of Christianity is the pacifist maxim 'Love your enemies.' Christians who killed are not killing in the name of Christianity nor Jesus but are driven by their own personal evil tendencies.
Christians cannot justify their killing by insisting God or Jesus said so.

Muslims on the other hand can justify their killing by quoting the MANY relevant verses from the Quran.

The sad truth is that while religion may have and has during all human existence been an ideological justification for war, killing, and assimilation via proselytizing, it has never been the CAUSE of war... wars are caused by diplomatic breakdowns of how to divvy up wealth and livelihood. In other words, wars are caused by greed or else a desperate fight for survival, and religion is a mere ideological tool in aiding war.

You point seem odd?

Islam is the only religion that has elements that cause wars.
The mission of Islam is to dominate the world and subdue non-Muslims as inferior beings.
In this case, Muslims can resort to wars.
Note this [there are others];

• 2:216. Warfare [l-qitālu] is ordained [kutiba: prescribed] for you [Muslims], though it is hateful unto you [Muslims]; but it may happen that ye [Muslims] hate a thing which is good for you, and it may happen that ye love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, ye know not.

Not all Muslims will be influenced by the above but if only 10% are inclined by their warrior tendency, there are 150 millions of them around the world. The consequences of the above is so evident now and over the history of Islam civilization.

-1- wrote: ↑Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:07 am [
Veritas, you are obviously a very biassed, blood-thirsty Muslim-hater.

-1- wrote: ↑Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:07 am
The USA is governed by the US Constitution not the Bible.

gaffo wrote: ↑Sat Sep 01, 2018 4:18 am

-1- wrote: ↑Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:49 am Much like the USA touts being a Christian nation, yet it allows, nay, fosters killing innocent people by the hundreds of thousands. Direct contradiction of the commandment "Thou shalt not kill".

you oppose abortion.

noted.

gaffo wrote: ↑Sat Sep 01, 2018 4:18 am

-1- wrote: ↑Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:49 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:34 am

• 3:151. We [Allah] shall cast terror [R3B: l-ruʿ'ba] into the hearts of those [infidels] who disbelieve because they [infidels] ascribe unto Allah partners [ShRK: ashrakū idols and deities], for which no warrant hath been revealed. Their [infidels] habitation is the Fire, and hapless the abode of the wrong doers [l-ẓālimīna] [infidels].
  
  8:12. When thy Lord inspired the angels, (saying:) I [Allah] am with you. So make those who believe [Muslims] stand firm. I [Allah] will throw fear [R3B: l-ruʿ'ba: terror] into the hearts of those [infidels] who disbelieve. Then smite [DRB: idrib; strike] the necks and smite of them each finger.

The point with critical thinking in Philosophy is we must find out the relevant root causes.

This does not apply to Christians or to Jews.

don't follow - why not?

-1- wrote: ↑Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:49 am There is a complex view by Muslims (as written in the Koran) that Moses and Jesus were forerunners of Muhammad,

same view is Juadism, amos was before zacahraiah.etc...............

view is the same "god gives peoples propehts to many peoples - across time, and space.

-1- wrote: ↑Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:49 am and they were both prophets; therefore anyone who professes to believe the forerunner prophets is NOT an infidel.

yep. BTW Jesus looks to have been the son of "pantera" - a syrian roman soldier.

-1- wrote: ↑Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:49 am The modern era has ushered in a political climate in which this doctrine has been put to sleep.

don't follow, welcome clarification.

-1- wrote: ↑Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:49 am Incidentally, this doctrine was put to sleep at a very early age of Islam, when in SW Europe the Arabs and the Christians vied for possessing Spain, and in SE Europe, where the Ottoman Turks ran over the Christian kingdoms there.

yes accurate history, but miss your point,

welcome clarification though.

gaffo wrote: ↑Sat Sep 01, 2018 4:03 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:34 am [
Note the following [there are many similar ones];

• 3:151. We [Allah] shall cast terror [R3B: l-ruʿ'ba] into the hearts of those [infidels] who disbelieve because they [infidels] ascribe unto Allah partners [ShRK: ashrakū idols and deities], for which no warrant hath been revealed. Their [infidels] habitation is the Fire, and hapless the abode of the wrong doers [l-ẓālimīna] [infidels].
  
  8:12. When thy Lord inspired the angels, (saying:) I [Allah] am with you. So make those who believe [Muslims] stand firm. I [Allah] will throw fear [R3B: l-ruʿ'ba: terror] into the hearts of those [infidels] who disbelieve. Then smite [DRB: idrib; strike] the necks and smite of them each finger.

The point with critical thinking in Philosophy is we must find out the relevant root causes.

as there is the same filth in the OT - esp Leviticus.

your hypocrisy is noted

gaffo wrote: ↑Sat Sep 01, 2018 4:21 am there were at least 4 versions of the koran - 3 versions were burned 1200 yrs ago by Egytian Caliph (same story wtih Christians via the Gostic works in 300 AD).

you are not an objective person per Islam,

come back to us as an objective person - then we can discuss such matters.

gaffo wrote: ↑Sat Sep 01, 2018 4:25 am

-1- wrote: ↑Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:07 am [
Veritas, you are obviously a very biassed, blood-thirsty Muslim-hater.

agreed.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:42 amDo Not Blame Muslims!
For all the evil acts committed by some Muslims, DO NOT blame Muslims but the PRIMARY focus should be on the ideology of Islam.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=24842

-1- wrote: ↑Sat Sep 01, 2018 8:56 am

gaffo wrote: ↑Sat Sep 01, 2018 4:18 am

-1- wrote: ↑Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:49 am
This does not apply to Christians or to Jews.

don't follow - why not?

-1- wrote: ↑Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:49 am There is a complex view by Muslims (as written in the Koran) that Moses and Jesus were forerunners of Muhammad,

same view is Juadism, amos was before zacahraiah.etc...............

view is the same "god gives peoples propehts to many peoples - across time, and space.

-1- wrote: ↑Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:49 am and they were both prophets; therefore anyone who professes to believe the forerunner prophets is NOT an infidel.

yep. BTW Jesus looks to have been the son of "pantera" - a syrian roman soldier.

-1- wrote: ↑Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:49 am The modern era has ushered in a political climate in which this doctrine has been put to sleep.

don't follow, welcome clarification.

-1- wrote: ↑Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:49 am Incidentally, this doctrine was put to sleep at a very early age of Islam, when in SW Europe the Arabs and the Christians vied for possessing Spain, and in SE Europe, where the Ottoman Turks ran over the Christian kingdoms there.

yes accurate history, but miss your point,

welcome clarification though.

You are a typical non-thinking American, too, Gaffo.

Why the passage from the Koran does not apply to Jews and Chnristians? YOU OUGHT TO HAVE DEDUCED IT BY YOURSELF, BY READING THE QUOTED TEXT CAREFULLY, IF YOU CALL YOURSELF A PHILOSOPHER. BUT YOU, GAFFO, HAVE BEEN INFECTED BY THE BLIND AND BIASSED AMERICAN STUPIDITY ABOUT INTERPRETING ANCIENT TEXTS, AND NOT SEEING EXACTLY WHAT IS WRITTEN THERE.

What is written there? That Jews and Christians are NOT infidels. Jews and Christians, however, ought not to be embraced by Muslims as "friends" (Stupid fucking asshole veritas even quoted the transcribed word for it, as if that would have any significance.)

There IS, believe it or not, and obviously not having noticed yoruself, neither Veritas noticed it, that "infidel" and "not friend" are NOT equivalent. They are separate concepts, and one can be a non-friend without being an infidel.

You American patirots don't notice things like that, because YOU DON'T WANT TO, OR CAN'T, due to being indoctrinated by stupid fucking stuff day in and day out by your stupid fucking biassed pariotic media.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:44 am

gaffo wrote: ↑Sat Sep 01, 2018 4:03 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:34 am [
Note the following [there are many similar ones];

• 3:151. We [Allah] shall cast terror [R3B: l-ruʿ'ba] into the hearts of those [infidels] who disbelieve because they [infidels] ascribe unto Allah partners [ShRK: ashrakū idols and deities], for which no warrant hath been revealed. Their [infidels] habitation is the Fire, and hapless the abode of the wrong doers [l-ẓālimīna] [infidels].
  
  8:12. When thy Lord inspired the angels, (saying:) I [Allah] am with you. So make those who believe [Muslims] stand firm. I [Allah] will throw fear [R3B: l-ruʿ'ba: terror] into the hearts of those [infidels] who disbelieve. Then smite [DRB: idrib; strike] the necks and smite of them each finger.

The point with critical thinking in Philosophy is we must find out the relevant root causes.

as there is the same filth in the OT - esp Leviticus.

your hypocrisy is noted

Your critical thinking is very weak.
I did not say there is no violent verses in the OT.
The fact is there are more violent in the OT than the Quran but that is beside the point and should be in another discussion.


point taken, agreed, would be a good thread in and of itself.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:44 am This OP is related to Islam so to topic we discuss Islam specifically.

ok, i've been corrected.

carry on with discussion about Islam, a subject that interests me.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:49 am

gaffo wrote: ↑Sat Sep 01, 2018 4:21 am there were at least 4 versions of the koran - 3 versions were burned 1200 yrs ago by Egytian Caliph (same story wtih Christians via the Gostic works in 300 AD).

you are not an objective person per Islam,

come back to us as an objective person - then we can discuss such matters.

Why not objective?
I did not give any subjective views but refer objectively to what is written in the Quran.

In the other post I suggest you read Chapter 2 and Chapter 9.
Didn't you notice the aggression and negativity against non-believers in those chapters.

To be fair you should read the whole Quran thoroughly before you judge whether my views on the Quran.