Philosophy Now Forum

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:03 am

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:32 pm In denying mortality we crush the human spirits will to live, the will to exist against whatever odds be they small or great. We replaced meaning with distraction, sacrifice with hedonism, and in doing so we have already died. The ugly truth is that our generation has nothing to live for as our souls have become incapacitated in the face of material excess, and the human condition has become reduced, and is being reduced, simply to one of a number which projects itself through time until it is dissolved through further multiplication or division.

....

There is a difference between denying mortality and accepting mortality.

Actually most millenials do not believe they will die, they say they do because they think they understand death because of some television show or play a video game where the character continually respawns...but in reality they have no conception of its finite nature.

You may not deny 'mortality' in one sense, but being a theist generally means not accepting the finitude of mortality as a total fact.
The finitude of morality, that which has limits, exists through the infinite much in the same way there is "1 infinity". The nature of morality gives a boundary line where each life is a segment of time that is a foundational brick within the structure of creation.

Theists actually deny mortality in the 'real' sense that humans will somehow survive after physical as immortals in another divine dimension by the grace of God.

They don't deny mortality in the "real" sense as many religions acknowledge the embracement of death...we see this in the Baghvadgita in Hinduism or the nature of God's Death in Christianity.

The majority 4+ billion of theistic Abrahamic religionists deny and do not accept mortality thus believe humans are immortals with a promised of eternal life in heaven and for some with a bonus of virgins thrown in.

They also believe in eternal death....

Other theists believe in some other forms of escaping the psychological effects of mortality in other ways.

And so do those who worship science with the cryogenic movement...or even in communist states (which are going extinct) where the death of the individual provides the foundation in which the individual exists through the state.

The point is this, mortality is a fact.

And yet people often times have poor memories in the face of continual distraction.

However humans has evolved naturally to inhibit this fact and its effects from daily life to ensure human are not filled with terrible anxieties of death that could paralyze a person from leading a normal life.
Those who are too anxious of the fear of death is suffering from a mental illness called Thanatophobia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_anx ... sychology)

People also fear living life because they chose to forget the the death of the self, through forgetting the self, is the means in which one lives. Anxiety belongs to those who seek control, the acceptance of both life and death allows what exists and does not exist to exist and not exist as is...acceptance is surrender and we are generation that does not accept anything or anyone, including ourselves, as we subject ourselves to the blindness of the subjective nature of trying to control everything and everyone around us.

The problem with the inhibitors which is a later development of evolution is the strength of the inhibitors are not very strong thus the impulses of the anxieties of death leak in various forms.
It is this leakage that drive theists to attempt to close it with theism, i.e. an all powerful God to grant eternal life and other forms of reliefs against leaked anxieties of death.

The fear of death, and the pursuit of immortality and leisure, is the driving force behind the aquisition of knowledge through the sciences.

With a God [theism] to suppress the leaking death anxieties it comes along with the terrible side effects of a wide range of terrible evil and violence, notably from Islam as commanded by God. Christianity's creationism hinders the progress of knowledge. Organized religions also has it own negative baggage.

This is why we need to wean off theism and replace it with fool proof alternatives [no room for evils and violence] to plug the inherent and unavoidable leakages of the death anxieties effectively.

Your "fool proof" alternatives are for fools considering they are premised in an inherently statistical nature which is not just premised in an inherent from of constant relativism but eventually necessitates a .000001% chance of anything must inevitably actualize if the statistic as a relation of parts is to exist.

What potential exists, must exist as a possibility with the possibility existing as is eventually if it is to be possible...all possibilities provide the means for existence with existence being that which is possibile subject to the limits of time.

The idea of 'gift of mortality' is not a good one as it leads to theism and therefrom all its negative side effects.

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:43 pm

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:03 am There is a difference between denying mortality and accepting mortality.

Actually most millenials do not believe they will die, they say they do because they think they understand death because of some television show or play a video game where the character continually respawns...but in reality they have no conception of its finite nature.

You may not deny 'mortality' in one sense, but being a theist generally means not accepting the finitude of mortality as a total fact.
The finitude of morality, that which has limits, exists through the infinite much in the same way there is "1 infinity". The nature of morality gives a boundary line where each life is a segment of time that is a foundational brick within the structure of creation.

The majority 4+ billion of theistic Abrahamic religionists deny and do not accept mortality thus believe humans are immortals with a promised of eternal life in heaven and for some with a bonus of virgins thrown in.
They also believe in eternal death....

Other theists believe in some other forms of escaping the psychological effects of mortality in other ways.
And so do those who worship science with the cryogenic movement...or even in communist states (which are going extinct) where the death of the individual provides the foundation in which the individual exists through the state.

The point is this, mortality is a fact.
And yet people often times have poor memories in the face of continual distraction.

However humans has evolved naturally to inhibit this fact and its effects from daily life to ensure human are not filled with terrible anxieties of death that could paralyze a person from leading a normal life.
Those who are too anxious of the fear of death is suffering from a mental illness called Thanatophobia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_anx ... sychology)

People also fear living life because they chose to forget the the death of the self, through forgetting the self, is the means in which one lives. Anxiety belongs to those who seek control, the acceptance of both life and death allows what exists and does not exist to exist and not exist as is...acceptance is surrender and we are generation that does not accept anything or anyone, including ourselves, as we subject ourselves to the blindness of the subjective nature of trying to control everything and everyone around us.

The problem with the inhibitors which is a later development of evolution is the strength of the inhibitors are not very strong thus the impulses of the anxieties of death leak in various forms.
It is this leakage that drive theists to attempt to close it with theism, i.e. an all powerful God to grant eternal life and other forms of reliefs against leaked anxieties of death.

The fear of death, and the pursuit of immortality and leisure, is the driving force behind the acquisition of knowledge through the sciences.

With a God [theism] to suppress the leaking death anxieties it comes along with the terrible side effects of a wide range of terrible evil and violence, notably from Islam as commanded by God. Christianity's creationism hinders the progress of knowledge. Organized religions also has it own negative baggage.

This is why we need to wean off theism and replace it with fool proof alternatives [no room for evils and violence] to plug the inherent and unavoidable leakages of the death anxieties effectively.

Your "fool proof" alternatives are for fools considering they are premised in an inherently statistical nature which is not just premised in an inherent from of constant relativism but eventually necessitates a .000001% chance of anything must inevitably actualize if the statistic as a relation of parts is to exist.

What potential exists, must exist as a possibility with the possibility existing as is eventually if it is to be possible...all possibilities provide the means for existence with existence being that which is possible subject to the limits of time.

The idea of 'gift of mortality' is not a good one as it leads to theism and therefrom all its negative side effects.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:51 am

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:43 pm

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:03 am There is a difference between denying mortality and accepting mortality.

Actually most millenials do not believe they will die, they say they do because they think they understand death because of some television show or play a video game where the character continually respawns...but in reality they have no conception of its finite nature.

Most? Where is your reference for this?

It is more likely they like the majority of humans do not have strong awareness of mortality to the extent it bother them.
Where it bothers them subliminally, they would have turned to theism or some form of escapism to suppress it.

We are a generation that will stand up for the rights of some Gorilla in Africa but take selfies next to a dying man. We use violence for out entertainment no different than the Roman's of the colloseum's days? Why? Because entertainment is a way of placing something beneath you for the moment in which you are completely distracted and disconnected by its reality under a false image.

Turned to "Theism" to suppress it? You mean like the communists. I hate to break it to you but alot of people do not turn to religion before they die...so whatever innate Bigotry you have it seems to cloud your judgement.

You may not deny 'mortality' in one sense, but being a theist generally means not accepting the finitude of mortality as a total fact.
The finitude of morality, that which has limits, exists through the infinite much in the same way there is "1 infinity". The nature of morality gives a boundary line where each life is a segment of time that is a foundational brick within the structure of creation.

It's 'mortality' not 'morality'?

The reality of mortality denote the end of human consciousness and the physical body dissolves as how it should be.
Any idea of any consciousness or soul that survives physical death is an illusion.

Where is the scientific evidence that this state of existence is all that their is? In the face of parallel universes there is no contradiction about any form or degree of afterlife as death is merely a point of inversion where one state of existence changes into another.

The majority 4+ billion of theistic Abrahamic religionists deny and do not accept mortality thus believe humans are immortals with a promised of eternal life in heaven and for some with a bonus of virgins thrown in.
They also believe in eternal death....

Not for believers.
Eternal death and Hell is only for non-believers. Both are illusory.

References. You do understand, hypocrite, this is a debate...you have to provide an argument not state dog-matic belief like some religious freak.

"Believers" according to these faith's also are judged. A believer can go to hell while a non-believer can go to heaven, under certain circumstances...it is entirely possible.

Do you want references?

Other theists believe in some other forms of escaping the psychological effects of mortality in other ways.
And so do those who worship science with the cryogenic movement...or even in communist states (which are going extinct) where the death of the individual provides the foundation in which the individual exists through the state.

Cryogenic movement is different in the sense it is all physical, i.e. the person can be revive from mortality and live like normal in a normal physical world.
Theists on the other hand believe they are eternal immortal souls [illusory] that survive physical death in paradise or heaven.

The cyrogenic movement argues for resucitation in a time when technology will allow a sense of immortality, and what is "physical" becomes "eternal" in the respect it does not change.

We understand the soul is eternal through reason:

1) All consciousness exists through the creation, maintenance and destruction of limits where all phenomena, both empirical and abstract, are composed of limits through which we both exist and exist as while simultaneously acting as a means through these limits as limits in ourselves.

2) The foundation of all limits lie in the point, line and circle, which provide the necessary boundaries for all empirical and abstract realities.

3) The point, line and circle exist through eachother as infinite constants, and as the foundations of conciousness we can observe the consciousness as eternal through the limits which both manifest them and in which they manifest.

The point is this, mortality is a fact.
And yet people often times have poor memories in the face of continual distraction.

Nah.. it is not poor memories but something necessary to divert and suppress them from the fact of mortality. Note my point below.

Poor memories result from distraction as the inability to focus, with this focus being the ability to direct oneself towards a point and from that point create, maintian, or negate structure...this structure can be something physical such as focusing myself onto the point of building a house, or the development of an idea.

However humans has evolved naturally to inhibit this fact and its effects from daily life to ensure human are not filled with terrible anxieties of death that could paralyze a person from leading a normal life.
Those who are too anxious of the fear of death is suffering from a mental illness called Thanatophobia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_anx ... sychology)

Fallacy of Authority and Ad-hominum. The psychological state of the observer must be observed as seperate from the state of the argument, and the quotation of any Mental Illness Catalogue is an authority figure.

People also fear living life because they chose to forget the the death of the self, through forgetting the self, is the means in which one lives. Anxiety belongs to those who seek control, the acceptance of both life and death allows what exists and does not exist to exist and not exist as is...acceptance is surrender and we are generation that does not accept anything or anyone, including ourselves, as we subject ourselves to the blindness of the subjective nature of trying to control everything and everyone around us.

I agree the right way is to accept the fact of mortality.

The point of 'control' is irrelevant. Every human being must take control and be responsible for their actions and thoughts, else they will drift senselessly in the open ocean. This will be another separate OP.

You can create an ocean of thought through control...

The problem is theists actually do not accept the fact of mortality but rather 'deceptively' window dress it with a big lie of the idea of eternal life in heaven and paradise [with virgins thrown in for some]. This where the terrrible evils and violence manifest from 'a critical SOME' of believers inspired by evil laden elements [commands from a God] in immutable theistic texts.

The majority of theologians observe these promises as metaphorical where the metaphor acts as a form of "qualitative" equation through imagery, where the complexity of truth can only be observed under the complex nature of certain images relative to other images.

The problem with the inhibitors which is a later development of evolution is the strength of the inhibitors are not very strong thus the impulses of the anxieties of death leak in various forms.
It is this leakage that drive theists to attempt to close it with theism, i.e. an all powerful God to grant eternal life and other forms of reliefs against leaked anxieties of death.

Man as measurer makes him/her the all-powerful God according to the Atheists, hence the concept of God does not dissappear when imbued with qualities of force and power.

The fear of death, and the pursuit of immortality and leisure, is the driving force behind the acquisition of knowledge through the sciences.

Nope!
Science is MAINLY due to an inherent drive embedded within humans to acquire knowledge to facilitate progress and preservation of the species. 'Fear of death' may play a role but albeit a secondary one.

Life is the aquisition of Knowledge and death is ignorance.

With a God [theism] to suppress the leaking death anxieties it comes along with the terrible side effects of a wide range of terrible evil and violence, notably from Islam as commanded by God. Christianity's creationism hinders the progress of knowledge. Organized religions also has it own negative baggage.

This is why we need to wean off theism and replace it with fool proof alternatives [no room for evils and violence] to plug the inherent and unavoidable leakages of the death anxieties effectively.

The big bang and "innocent until proven guilty" was started by the Catholics, the Muslims developed algrebra and helped provide strong foundations for logic, the Mayans/Aztecs made considerable advances in astronomy, the Hindus had considerable influence in mathematics and the concept of zero...etc.

Einstein was a Theist, along with Newton and the majority of the scientists who we built our foundations of knowledge about.

Seriously?

Provide an argument for a "fool-proof" argument.

Your "fool proof" alternatives are for fools considering they are premised in an inherently statistical nature which is not just premised in an inherent from of constant relativism but eventually necessitates a .000001% chance of anything must inevitably actualize if the statistic as a relation of parts is to exist.

What potential exists, must exist as a possibility with the possibility existing as is eventually if it is to be possible...all possibilities provide the means for existence with existence being that which is possible subject to the limits of time.

Actually it is very foolish of you to counter with the above narrow and shallow views.



There are already viable and applied near fool proof alternatives [say 80% but not 98%] which is non-theistic and which do not have evil laden elements and do not condone evil acts in anyway, examples are those from the Eastern Religions and Philosophies like Buddhism, Jainism, Hinduism [certain schools] and the likes.
These intended fool proof alternatives will use these near-fool-proof alternatives as a foundation to be improved upon.

Really...more statistics...so a 20% chance of a legitimate theistic alternative means their are legimate theistic altenernatives.

The idea of 'gift of mortality' is not a good one as it leads to theism and therefrom all its negative side effects.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:51 am

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:43 pm
Actually most millenials do not believe they will die, they say they do because they think they understand death because of some television show or play a video game where the character continually respawns...but in reality they have no conception of its finite nature.

Most? Where is your reference for this?

It is more likely they like the majority of humans do not have strong awareness of mortality to the extent it bother them.
Where it bothers them subliminally, they would have turned to theism or some form of escapism to suppress it.

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:12 pmWe are a generation that will stand up for the rights of some Gorilla in Africa but take selfies next to a dying man. We use violence for out entertainment no different than the Roman's of the colloseum's days? Why? Because entertainment is a way of placing something beneath you for the moment in which you are completely distracted and disconnected by its reality under a false image.

Turned to "Theism" to suppress it? You mean like the communists. I hate to break it to you but alot of people do not turn to religion before they die...so whatever innate Bigotry you have it seems to cloud your judgement.

Another angry self-righteous "I know everything" atheist...

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:26 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:51 am

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:43 pm
Actually most millenials do not believe they will die, they say they do because they think they understand death because of some television show or play a video game where the character continually respawns...but in reality they have no conception of its finite nature.

Most? Where is your reference for this?

It is more likely they like the majority of humans do not have strong awareness of mortality to the extent it bother them.
Where it bothers them subliminally, they would have turned to theism or some form of escapism to suppress it.

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:12 pmWe are a generation that will stand up for the rights of some Gorilla in Africa but take selfies next to a dying man. We use violence for out entertainment no different than the Roman's of the colloseum's days? Why? Because entertainment is a way of placing something beneath you for the moment in which you are completely distracted and disconnected by its reality under a false image.

You stated most millenials but give superficial reasons.

All depth is superficial as it is merely a medial point between two dimension of height and width...metaphorically speaking, Odin pulled his eye out in the pursuit of wisdom. The removal of one eye results in a decrease in depth perception where everything becomes shallow. Depth occurs only through relative movement, and in a society of continually relativistic change at a rate beyond measurement no real depth can be observed as depth itself changes into what is shallow.

Turned to "Theism" to suppress it? You mean like the communists. I hate to break it to you but alot of people do not turn to religion before they die...so whatever innate Bigotry you have it seems to cloud your judgement.

Another angry self-righteous "I know everything" atheist...

"Bigotry" You seem to have run out of arguments thus resort of pejoratives in an attempt to cover whatever weaknesses you have.

I am not continuing to discuss when you have such an attitude until I see changes for the better.
Besides the way you reply out of the norm [color and messy quotes] is VERY tedious to deal with.

Blaming only theists for everything, just like blaming "this or that cause" for all my problems is the standard move of most millenials...a generation that is angry at this or that cause, without ever really being connected to a cause except through a facebook like...this is about as deep as we go...a shallow and poorly thought out "click".

Would it not be just as fair to also blame the Athiests too? Either way, it doesn't matter.

I use logic and ad-hominums, I have no limit...in regards to "tediousness"...focus makes the brain stronger as "you seem to have run out of arguments thus resort of pejoratives in an attempt to cover whatever weaknesses you have.