Philosophy Now Forum

DaM

So only you can change, only the individual you can change... not the world.

Soceities never change because societies are always and ever exactly what people want them to be because that's the way they like it.

As you know I agree with you that only individuals can consciously develop their being. Society doesn’t want it and struggles against it in accordance with the influences of natural laws. But it is still beneficial to understand as Simone wrote: “the force by which we are crushed.” It isn’t that people want society as it is and how it leads to atrocities including wars but more it is the natural result of what we are.

Theoretically it could change but practically it is impossible. For example Simone Weil explains what is necessary for a functioning free society. Once we agree why it is impossible it becomes clear why society must devolve along the paths introduced by Orwell and Huxley.

"The combination of these two facts — the longing in the depth of the heart for absolute good, and the power, though only latent, of directing attention and love to a reality beyond the world and of receiving good from it — constitutes a link which attaches every man without exception to that other reality.

Whoever recognizes that reality recognizes also that link. Because of it, he holds every human being without any exception as something sacred to which he is bound to show respect.

This is the only possible motive for universal respect towards all human beings. Whatever formulation of belief or disbelief a man may choose to make, if his heart inclines him to feel this respect, then he in fact also recognizes a reality other than this world's reality. Whoever in fact does not feel this respect is alien to that other reality also." ~ Simone Weil

Modern society is closed to Man’s connection with the source of existence and the reality of the human condition. Humility and the recognition of ignorance as what defines human equality is scorned in favor of the ideal of statist slavery. Under these conditions only societal devolution is possible.

The necessity for Man to “Know Thyself” is replaced by striving to imagine oneself. The goal of a functiong free society is clearly impossible under these circumstances.

Nick_A wrote:... If there is a way out, what is it?

Free universal life-long access to education.

Arising_uk wrote: ↑Sat Jul 28, 2018 5:07 pm

Nick_A wrote:... If there is a way out, what is it?

Free universal life-long access to education.

The collective results of the sins of education lead to men like Khan.

“I am the punishment of God...If you had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you.” ~ Genghis Khan

-Imp

Arising_uk wrote: ↑Sat Jul 28, 2018 5:07 pm

Nick_A wrote:... If there is a way out, what is it?

Free universal life-long access to education.

I never let any schooling(prison) - (artificial programming) get in the way of my education ~ DAM


I have never let my schooling interfere with my education ~Mark Twain.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:14 pm
I never let any schooling(prison) - (artificial programming) get in the way of my education ~ DAM

So what did get in the way of it?

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:14 pm

Arising_uk wrote: ↑Sat Jul 28, 2018 5:07 pm

Nick_A wrote:... If there is a way out, what is it?

Free universal life-long access to education.

I never let any schooling(prison) - (artificial programming) get in the way of my education ~ DAM


I have never let my schooling interfere with my education ~Mark Twain.

What is normally referred to as education is actually indoctrination. Most just accept its impartiality as fact. Those like Orwell, Einstein, Mark Twain and others saw it for what it is.

“Power is in tearing human minds to pieces and putting them together again in new shapes of your own choosing.”

“The choice for mankind lies between freedom and happiness and for the great bulk of mankind, happiness is better.”
― George Orwell, 1984

People don't realize that the modern drive for happiness assures the loss of freedom. The tragic part is that people do not realize what the loss of freedom leads to

“Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.”
― George Orwell, 1984

The process of indoctrination as opposed to education is directed at training the mind to ignore the human condition in favor of imposing a chosen agenda.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Ben Franklin

America may become the first nation to be destroyed by tweets. Who needs bombs when a nation voluntarily makes itself ripe for the kill as suggested by Huxley?

Cell phones and Facebook are Huxley's nightmare come true.

In 1000 years, when they find our graves, they will wonder why our necks are in a 45 degree angle.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:59 pm
What is normally referred to as education is actually indoctrination. Most just accept its impartiality as fact. Those like Orwell, Einstein, Mark Twain and others saw it for what it is.

Unless Orwell, Einstein, Mark Twain and others didn't have any education, it appears they managed to get through it and still meet with your approval, which suggests it couldn't have done them too much harm. At least, not in your eyes. As for indoctrination, to hang onto every recorded word of Plato and Simone Weil, for no other reason than they are Plato and Simone Weil, looks, to me, very much like indoctrination.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:54 am There is a minority of truth seekers who strive for inner freedom necessary to experience the reality of he world and of the human condition. The dominant desire for pleasure is what produces the descent into the triviality Huxley was concerned with.

That's true. But when you really think about it long and hard enough, you realize that your quote is complete nonsense.

Harbal wrote: ↑Sat Jul 28, 2018 10:23 pm

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:59 pm
What is normally referred to as education is actually indoctrination. Most just accept its impartiality as fact. Those like Orwell, Einstein, Mark Twain and others saw it for what it is.

Unless Orwell, Einstein, Mark Twain and others didn't have any education, it appears they managed to get through it and still meet with your approval, which suggests it couldn't have done them too much harm. At least, not in your eyes. As for indoctrination, to hang onto every recorded word of Plato and Simone Weil, for no other reason than they are Plato and Simone Weil, looks, to me, very much like indoctrination.

"Here's looking at you." You are one smart cookie, Harbal.

It sometimes takes the biggest genius to point to the most obvious.

Arising_uk wrote: ↑Sat Jul 28, 2018 5:07 pm

... If there is a way out, what is it?

Free universal life-long access to education.

Yes, but it won't happen. The trends are opposite. The growth of stupidity and ignorance in recent years - or was that the revelation of it? - has been disturbing and astonishing. Learning and understanding are no longer much valued as much as the ability to spin a good line (as long as you are the "right" colour/race/religion/political persuasion). It's a triumph of marketing over philosophy, style over substance.

Meanwhile, the remaining education system struggles to cope with rapidly growing populations and diversity within a perennially challenging economic climate amid increasing collusion between governments, corporations and institutions to actively prevent sufficient education of the masses that they might start to question authority or think for themselves.

The education system has thus now been rationalised to the bone.

Will governments that rely on a support base that is uneducated and easy to manipulate work to improve education systems? Will the media, whose influence is greatest with the uneducated, lobby governments to provide education that will serve to undermine moguls' gaming of the systems?

No large players appear much interested in providing the money and resources needed to improve it, despite the largesse taxpayer lavished on them by governments uninterested in closing their friends' tax loopholes. The increasing privatisation of education points to increasing stratification and that separation of classes means that when the shit hits the fan, the rich will largely be a safe distance from disasters afflicting little people.

Look at how monster players like Trump and Murdoch posture as champions of the little people, all the time pushing to profitably wreck and replace the natural environment that is especially important to the poor and middle class. While Trump and Murdoch kill of the western environmental movements they themselves and their families will always still be breathing clean air, drinking clean water, safer than anyone from conflict, financial ruin, mean streets, homelessness, storms, floods, droughts, quakes, sinkholes ad infinitum!

Why are they safe? They are akin to penguins who always stay in the middle of the huddle, whose immediate environment is given ultimate stability and comfort. They have a responsibility to acknowledge that and to more seriously consider future generations - our generation's children - rather than exploit them. Murdoch is especially culpable in this, and in helping to degrade the standard of public conversation in the Anglosphere, facilitating the kind of dumbing down that Orwell and Huxley anticipated.

Nick_A wrote:The collective results of the sins of education lead to men like Khan. …

You are truly mental.

Nick_A wrote: The process of indoctrination as opposed to education is directed at training the mind to ignore the human condition in favor of imposing a chosen agenda. …

But that is exactly what you wish to impose?

Dontaskme wrote:I never let any schooling(prison) - (artificial programming) get in the way of my education ~ DAM

It shows.

I'm continually amazed at the ingratitude shown by those who had access to a free education, do you know how many children in this world would give their eyeteeth to have such an opportunity.