Philosophy Now Forum

Reflex wrote: ↑Thu May 17, 2018 12:34 am

Necromancer wrote: ↑Wed May 16, 2018 12:04 pm I would say, today and possibly before, that to be an Atheist seems straightforward dishonest! They are hiding something. Can it be their immorality? Their war on "dignified" human kind? Why are they not (secular/Atheist) Humanists instead? They have the urge to fight any investigation that declares souls, telepathy, regeneration and reincarnation to be true? That they fight parts of science that can lead to moral progress? That they fight progress that may lead to more religious people?

One word: DISHONESTY!

I think they are hiding from something; i.e., the logical consequences:

To the unbelieving materialist, man is simply an evolutionary accident. His hopes of survival are strung on a figment of mortal imagination; his fears, loves, longings, and beliefs are but the reaction of the incidental juxtaposition of certain lifeless atoms of matter. No display of energy nor expression of trust can carry him beyond the grave. The devotional labors and inspirational genius of the best of men are doomed to be extinguished by death, the long and lonely night of eternal oblivion and soul extinction. Nameless despair is man’s only reward for living and toiling under the temporal sun of mortal existence. Each day of life slowly and surely tightens the grasp of a pitiless doom which a hostile and relentless universe of matter has decreed shall be the crowning insult to everything in human desire which is beautiful, noble, lofty, and good.

Now, watch the denials mental contortions as they try to refute this.

Based on the hyped-up mystical nonsense of this overdone prose poem, why bother; and based on the source the Urantia Foundation (did you forget to mention that?) which is crap constipated with a list of "papers" one of which reads, Seraphic Guardians of Destiny, its clear what constitutes your reality.

Nameless despair is man’s only reward for living and toiling under the temporal sun of mortal existence. Each day of life slowly and surely tightens the grasp of a pitiless doom which a hostile and relentless universe of matter has decreed shall be the crowning insult to everything in human desire which is beautiful, noble, lofty, and good.

...so, as a matter of interest, what are you going to do about it. Pray to god you know exists, hope to get to heaven and live happily ever after!

Reflex wrote: ↑Thu May 17, 2018 12:34 am

Nameless despair is man’s only reward for living and toiling under the temporal sun of mortal existence. Each day of life slowly and surely tightens the grasp of a pitiless doom which a hostile and relentless universe of matter has decreed shall be the crowning insult to everything in human desire which is beautiful, noble, lofty, and good.

Now, watch the denials mental contortions as they try to refute this.

This may very well exist for some theists. They're the ones giving credibility to it. So this is what they can fear if they aren't good enough to make it to Heaven.

Non-theists don't believe this at all... why would they? It's nonsense for non-theists.

Whatever your reality is, Reflex, it doesn't apply to everyone else. What's REALLY funny is the way your ego keeps dancing around saying that everything is funny, because you don't want to acknowledge the value of any other views and you don't have anything more clever to respond. The fact that you would post the quote above shows the limits and horrors of your mentality, and apparently you're too intoxicated to realize it. You're waving it in other people's faces like a giddy madman.

Non-theists don't live by such limits and horrors. And speaking for myself, I am loving and appreciating the bounty of every moment right now. I don't need a promise or story for tomorrow. All of my reward is right here, right now... and it's magnificent.

Good luck turning in your coupon for a reward after you're dead.

Necromancer wrote: ↑Wed May 16, 2018 12:40 pm I'm curious and wondering:
How does it feel to be an Atheist?

When I was an atheist, fine. I'm now agnostic but most theists see me as being more atheistic.

Necromancer wrote:Are you sad a lot, being without the hope for Heaven?

Far from it. All anyone can do is try to lead a good life and understand who they are, without knowing what happens after death. Most of us don't even predict what will happen in a couple of years well, let alone the uncharted frontiers beyond the veil.

Necromancer wrote:Do you think about evil a lot?

I do not believe in evil; I believe in ethical immaturity. So-called evil does not bring happiness; it is an undeveloped response to life's inevitable frustrations.

Necromancer wrote:Do you try to relate to the World as objects so that you do not think so much about the ethical and moral issues?

No, there is a love of life in humanists and nature-lovers that is most likely deeper than that of the tribally-affiliated, anthropocentric and formulaic dictates of religions. One must always wonder - is this person being decent because they care about me or about their eternal soul?

Note that the GOP - God's Own Party - has zero respect for nature, treating its denizens as objects. Divine humans believing they have the God-given right to screw up any way they like with no responsibility accepted.

Necromancer wrote:Are you paranoid a lot over the evil in the World? Tell us more about your lives as Atheists!

Not at all. The indigenous people were right - we don't own the land, it owns us. I'm interested to see where humans are being pushed by the physics and chemistry of the planet.

Since retirement I eat, sleep, brush my teeth, shower, go bushwalking with the dog, play music, work in the garden, help people out when they have requests, occasionally socialise. Oh yes, and as a secularist it is of course compulsory for me to go on daily killing sprees in the endless search for ever more baby flesh (enjoyed with fava beans and a nice chianti) ... naturally some devil worship, terrorism, theft and larceny, human sacrifice and orgies out in the woods, but you already knew all that!

Necromancer wrote:How is it exactly that you are more scientific than others, especially the religious?

Because I am interested in science and nature, amongst other things. I expect you can quote a lot more Bible passages than me. We simply gravitate to our areas of interest.

Necromancer wrote:How do you practice the scientific life?

Er, people who don't believe in gods don't live a "scientific life". We are actually human beings too. You do realise this, don't you? We are not actually AI or baby-eating demonic entities. Thus, pretty well everyone leads a life of both emotions and reasons - even theists, I hear.

Necromancer wrote:Do you read a lot?

Usually.

Necromancer wrote:Do you like to contribute to society? In what ways? What type of charity work do you like the most? Working with homeless and drug addicts? Working with housing issues? Being against capitalism? Occupy the stock exchanges of the World?

I've done some things to help others or nature, both through work and outside of work. That is far from unusual, even amongst evil nonhuman beasts like myself.

Dubious wrote: ↑Thu May 17, 2018 1:43 am

Reflex wrote: ↑Thu May 17, 2018 12:34 am

Necromancer wrote: ↑Wed May 16, 2018 12:04 pm I would say, today and possibly before, that to be an Atheist seems straightforward dishonest! They are hiding something. Can it be their immorality? Their war on "dignified" human kind? Why are they not (secular/Atheist) Humanists instead? They have the urge to fight any investigation that declares souls, telepathy, regeneration and reincarnation to be true? That they fight parts of science that can lead to moral progress? That they fight progress that may lead to more religious people?

One word: DISHONESTY!

I think they are hiding from something; i.e., the logical consequences:

To the unbelieving materialist, man is simply an evolutionary accident. His hopes of survival are strung on a figment of mortal imagination; his fears, loves, longings, and beliefs are but the reaction of the incidental juxtaposition of certain lifeless atoms of matter. No display of energy nor expression of trust can carry him beyond the grave. The devotional labors and inspirational genius of the best of men are doomed to be extinguished by death, the long and lonely night of eternal oblivion and soul extinction. Nameless despair is man’s only reward for living and toiling under the temporal sun of mortal existence. Each day of life slowly and surely tightens the grasp of a pitiless doom which a hostile and relentless universe of matter has decreed shall be the crowning insult to everything in human desire which is beautiful, noble, lofty, and good.

Now, watch the denials mental contortions as they try to refute this.

Based on the hyped-up mystical nonsense of this overdone prose poem, why bother; and based on the source the Urantia Foundation (did you forget to mention that?) which is crap constipated with a list of "papers" one of which reads, Seraphic Guardians of Destiny, its clear what constitutes your reality.

Nameless despair is man’s only reward for living and toiling under the temporal sun of mortal existence. Each day of life slowly and surely tightens the grasp of a pitiless doom which a hostile and relentless universe of matter has decreed shall be the crowning insult to everything in human desire which is beautiful, noble, lofty, and good.

...so, as a matter of interest, what are you going to do about it. Pray to god you know exists, hope to get to heaven and live happily ever after!

Thank you for your fine example of "mental contortions" and logical fallacies.

Reflex wrote: ↑Thu May 17, 2018 3:25 am

Dubious wrote: ↑Thu May 17, 2018 1:43 am

Reflex wrote: ↑Thu May 17, 2018 12:34 am I think they are hiding from something; i.e., the logical consequences:



Now, watch the denials mental contortions as they try to refute this.

Based on the hyped-up mystical nonsense of this overdone prose poem, why bother; and based on the source the Urantia Foundation (did you forget to mention that?) which is crap constipated with a list of "papers" one of which reads, Seraphic Guardians of Destiny, its clear what constitutes your reality.

Nameless despair is man’s only reward for living and toiling under the temporal sun of mortal existence. Each day of life slowly and surely tightens the grasp of a pitiless doom which a hostile and relentless universe of matter has decreed shall be the crowning insult to everything in human desire which is beautiful, noble, lofty, and good.

...so, as a matter of interest, what are you going to do about it. Pray to god you know exists, hope to get to heaven and live happily ever after!

Thank you for your fine example of "mental contortions" and logical fallacies.

Please indicate where the "mental contortions" and logical fallacies occurred so that I may correct them! I'm certain you would be most happy to if that were actually the case...and so would I if you can show me where!

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed May 16, 2018 11:28 am Define Atheist?

.

A concept is a thought conceived of in the mind. It doesn't have to be true or proven.

Atheism feels no reason for an ultimate source of existence, It cannot be based on a proven reality nor is it necessary, It is a reaction to our collective inability to comprehend objective human meaning and purpose resulting from a conscious connection with the source which is denied.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Thu May 17, 2018 4:28 am

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed May 16, 2018 11:28 am Define Atheist?

.

A concept is a thought conceived of in the mind. It doesn't have to be true or proven.

Atheism feels no reason for an ultimate source of existence, It cannot be based on a proven reality nor is it necessary, It is a reaction to our collective inability to comprehend objective human meaning and purpose resulting from a conscious connection with the source which is denied.

Very well put.

And I agree.

Atheism's logic of negation, is dependent upon a continual redefinition of God in the respect negation only occurs if something exists. Atheism inevitably results in religion as it acts as a negative boundary which paradoxically forms it. To say God does not exist because of "x" requires a continual chain of arguments claiming God does not exist because of "x1,x2,x3 ad-infinitum" which in effect continually redefines God.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Thu May 17, 2018 4:28 am It is a reaction to our collective inability to comprehend objective human meaning and purpose resulting from a conscious connection with the source which is denied.

You may think this sounds clever, but it makes no sense. What is "THE source" you speak of that you think you KNOW? If someone doesn't believe what you do, how is that DENIAL? As usual, you're flattering yourself with your delusions.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed May 16, 2018 11:28 am Define Atheist?

.

An atheist is someone who - through intelligence and sound reasoning - has managed to dismiss the ridiculous visions of God handed down to us from ancient minds (especially those of the Abrahamic religions),...

...only to find himself/herself in the awkward position of worshiping at the altar of a god who is infinitely more preposterous than those alluded to above.

In other words, an atheist...

...by reason of his/her lack of belief in something conscious and intelligent presiding over the creation of the universe...

...is someone who (by default) must therefore believe in a god called “CHANCE.”

Indeed, the atheist’s deep and reverential faith in their invisible and bumbling god of serendipitous processes would put to shame the most devout theist.
_______

QuantumT wrote: ↑Wed May 16, 2018 8:32 pm I just have one question for the theists in this forum:

Why build a mansion to house a bacteria?

When you consider the vastness of space, and our tiny little planet, it seems rediculous to think it plays the lead role, doesn't it?

Clearly, you have not given much consideration to the vastness of the human mind.

QuantumT wrote: ↑Wed May 16, 2018 8:32 pm Here's a picture that shows 200 light years (extend of human radio broadcast) in our galaxy.
Remember, there are billions of galaxies, this is just one:

http://www.rainydaymagazine.com/RDM2011 ... axyBig.jpg

Of course that's not “our” galaxy in the picture you linked to, but it’s a good visualization tool for getting your point across.

It seems I’ve had this conversation with Dubious a while back...

...Nevertheless, name just one single purpose that the billions of galaxies would have if you were to remove all traces of life and consciousness from the universe.
_______

seeds wrote: ↑Fri May 18, 2018 5:00 am

QuantumT wrote: ↑Wed May 16, 2018 8:32 pm I just have one question for the theists in this forum:

Why build a mansion to house a bacteria?

When you consider the vastness of space, and our tiny little planet, it seems rediculous to think it plays the lead role, doesn't it?

Clearly, you have not given much consideration to the vastness of the human mind.

QuantumT wrote: ↑Wed May 16, 2018 8:32 pm Here's a picture that shows 200 light years (extend of human radio broadcast) in our galaxy.
Remember, there are billions of galaxies, this is just one:

http://www.rainydaymagazine.com/RDM2011 ... axyBig.jpg

Of course that's not “our” galaxy in the picture you linked to, but it’s a good visualization tool for getting your point across.

It seems I’ve had this conversation with Dubious a while back...

...Nevertheless, name just one single purpose that the billions of galaxies would have if you were to remove all traces of life and consciousness from the universe.
_______

Would it even exist?

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Thu May 17, 2018 4:12 pm Atheism's logic of negation, is dependent upon a continual redefinition of God in the respect negation only occurs if something exists. Atheism inevitably results in religion as it acts as a negative boundary which paradoxically forms it. To say God does not exist because of "x" requires a continual chain of arguments claiming God does not exist because of "x1,x2,x3 ad-infinitum" which in effect continually redefines God.

I agree with your premise. The very act of negating is creating. Nothing can be ruled out. Reality cannot experience it's own absence.

Which in effect means God cannot be defined. God being a pet name for 'Source'

All conceptual ideas regarding 'Source' can be negated and refuted except ''Source Itself'' which is the source of all conceptual ideas, so has to be and IS without doubt or error. For Source is self evident.

It seems Source has given itself the pet name ''God''. Source being the ultimate original Father from which all offspring are sired as desire. From Source to Source an endless spring. There is no 'thing' that is not Source.

Conceptual labels are metaphors for describing and giving structure to this ineffable unknown Reality that is life living itself, therefore the story imposed upon Reality via conceptual ideas is a fiction running through it appearing in it, as phenomena impossible to separate from the noumenon.

To deny Source is impossible for that which would be denying Source is Sourced in Source itself. And so any denial would defeat the object.

All I know is I don't know.I don't even know what doesn't know.Just all this,happening by itself.

Just THIS...nothing to refute, negate, understand, or get. Just THIS. Being.

The more added to infinity is just more paint on the screen of awareness being. Infinity is an endless spring.

We know it's endless, because there is no knowledge of beginnings.



.

Walker wrote: ↑Wed May 16, 2018 7:04 pm When people say The Book, they mean The Good Book, which doesn’t contradict the one written now.

Impossible to separate the story from the book.

.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Fri May 18, 2018 8:24 am

Walker wrote: ↑Wed May 16, 2018 7:04 pm When people say The Book, they mean The Good Book, which doesn’t contradict the one written now.

Impossible to separate the story from the book.

.

Just for giggles google, “The Good Book.”

I did after posting the old-timey reference and … surprise surprise Sergeant Carter.*



*A line made famous by Gomer, media’s once-upon-a-time presentation of the preternatural self-depricating, honest American: thick as a brick, heart as big as the sky and sings like an angel, ‘specially on payday and payoff day.

A template for understanding mid-continental Americans.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8KZK0AFgeE