Philosophy Now Forum

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:25 am

Philosophy Explorer wrote: ↑Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:03 am

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:01 am

Okay, so what holds the nucleus of an atom together is pressure.

Pressure from what?

PhilX

Consciousness.

PhilX

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:25 am

Philosophy Explorer wrote: ↑Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:03 am

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:01 am

Okay, so what holds the nucleus of an atom together is pressure.

Pressure from what?

PhilX

Consciousness...aka space.

I really thing the 4 fundamental forces in physics is a better explanation. I don't recall having to think about the atoms in my body staying together, or the atoms in the universe, that is just a few more than I can think about. Also space doesn't exert any force, as far as I know, it's acted on by various forces, but doesn't exert any itself.

thedoc wrote: ↑Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:15 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:25 am

Philosophy Explorer wrote: ↑Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:03 am

Pressure from what?

PhilX

Consciousness...aka space.

I really thing the 4 fundamental forces in physics is a better explanation. I don't recall having to think about the atoms in my body staying together, or the atoms in the universe, that is just a few more than I can think about. Also space doesn't exert any force, as far as I know, it's acted on by various forces, but doesn't exert any itself.

Atoms are conscious...they know how to build a universe.

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Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:29 pm

thedoc wrote: ↑Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:15 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:25 am

Consciousness...aka space.

I really thing the 4 fundamental forces in physics is a better explanation. I don't recall having to think about the atoms in my body staying together, or the atoms in the universe, that is just a few more than I can think about. Also space doesn't exert any force, as far as I know, it's acted on by various forces, but doesn't exert any itself.

Atoms are conscious...they know how to build a universe.

.

The atoms told you this?

PhilX

Philosophy Explorer wrote: ↑Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:31 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:29 pm

thedoc wrote: ↑Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:15 pm

I really thing the 4 fundamental forces in physics is a better explanation. I don't recall having to think about the atoms in my body staying together, or the atoms in the universe, that is just a few more than I can think about. Also space doesn't exert any force, as far as I know, it's acted on by various forces, but doesn't exert any itself.

Atoms are conscious...they know how to build a universe.

.

The atoms told you this?

PhilX

nothing knows it is conscious...knowledge informs illusory reality...nothing made the words that made the knowledge

Consciousness is unconscious.

Knowledge makes it appear conscious of itself....

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:54 pm

Philosophy Explorer wrote: ↑Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:31 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:29 pm
Atoms are conscious...they know how to build a universe.

.

The atoms told you this?

PhilX

nothing knows it is conscious...knowledge informs illusory reality...nothing made the words that made the knowledge

Consciousness is unconscious.

Knowledge makes it appear conscious of itself....

Since you don't know you're conscious, then you know nothing.

PhilX

Ah, but Phil, she speaks not of gnosis but awakeness (as opposed to dormancy), which is ultimately panvitalism mistaken for panpsychism.

Let's consider panpsychism. During our deepest sleep, we are still much more conscious than our constituent cells and bacteria. These entities would presumably be much more conscious (?) than nonliving molecules, and these would seemingly be much more "conscious" than atoms. So we might consider the tiny "consciousness" that "allows" atoms to react to their environment in fundamentally simple ways.

So or instance, a gnat is conscious but it's not a kind of consciousness that we value in ourselves, and thus not what we usually speak about when we refer to "consciousness".

Returning somewhat to terra firma, if we remove the names of forces, what we are left with is a balance of inwards and outwards forces. Anything that is very dense will tend to draw stuff from the environment towards it. Meanwhile, other dense objects and the relative space around dense entities are constantly trying to pull any dense entities outwards towards equilibrium, towards disintegration.

Logically, probabilities make certain that some parts of the fabric of reality will be more dense than others, while the laws of physics determine the configurations of, and thresholds around, those emergences.

Philosophy Explorer wrote: ↑Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:31 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:29 pm

thedoc wrote: ↑Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:15 pm

I really thing the 4 fundamental forces in physics is a better explanation. I don't recall having to think about the atoms in my body staying together, or the atoms in the universe, that is just a few more than I can think about. Also space doesn't exert any force, as far as I know, it's acted on by various forces, but doesn't exert any itself.

Atoms are conscious...they know how to build a universe.

.

The atoms told you this?

PhilX

No, the voices in his head told him this, but then voices will tell you anything that you want to believe.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:54 pm nothing knows it is conscious...knowledge informs illusory reality...nothing made the words that made the knowledge

Consciousness is unconscious.

Knowledge makes it appear conscious of itself....

Word salad at it's best.

thedoc wrote: ↑Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:09 am

Philosophy Explorer wrote: ↑Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:31 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:29 pm
Atoms are conscious...they know how to build a universe.

.

The atoms told you this?

PhilX

No, the voices in his head told him this, but then voices will tell you anything that you want to believe.

Everything about yourself, everything about others, the world and his wife is JUST a belief, and without the belief, what is reality, what is you? ...you have no idea, except what knowledge informs...life is /was long before knowledge arrived, before self awareness.. there were no questions, no answers.

Now it seems that's all there is ..there's just endless questions and more questions, but never answers...just beliefs, and opinions, and counter opinions, and counter beliefs, that we either by consensus agree upon or reject...mostly, people don't choose to look beyond the surface of their beliefs... Why do you think the questions of what, why, how and when continue to arise decade after decade...same old questions are being asked over and over again?...all the same old knowledge repackaged to look like new...but the answers never come, because knowledge is nothing but stories and endless theories about what we only think we know...thoughts have become reality, and the solid matter that makes up reality is nothing more than frozen thought in time...appearing in the timeless space...everyone, not just me, believe in what we want to believe. Either we are believing in something or we are not, it's all belief, even not believing is a belief..that's the absurdity of human language, aka concepts...it's all a game no one is playing...people are not real, they didn't exist before they existed and they won't exist after they stop existing...so who is existing now?....knowledge that's who...only knowledge exists...words on a blank screen, or thoughts on the screen of awareness...reality is a simulation which the brain interprets to be real...the brain has no way of knowing the difference between real or unreal, consciousness or unconsciousness...these are all just believed concepts. To deny it's all belief, then stop believing in anything and see what's left?

Who told you what you know? ..what would you have known if you were the only person alive in the universe?

Everything we think we know including me, is what we have made up out of thin air. Look around, you are surrounded by what appears to be empty space full of more space appearing solid...but there's nothing solid there, except vibrating atoms spinning at different frequencies, the slower the spin the denser the solids.

Every thing is in freefall to oblivion and beyond, moving at the speed of light...matter is frozen thought, suspended animation.

We can as observers observe what is seen, but we cannot observe what is observing...and because we have no idea what is observing ...we have no idea what we are looking at..except what we make up with words and thought, ..what we imagine to be there.

Nothing is real.

We call someone who has had a baby a mother, but before she had a baby she wasn't a mother, so the baby gave birth to the mother, or did the mother give birth to the baby...A door-knob is a useless meaningless conceptual object, it's meaning is only derived in association to a door....this is the absurdity of concepts..aka human man-made language.


How many labels do we want to stick on the screen of awareness ...awareness has no point of contact with any label...except the belief.

No belief..no movie on the screen of awareness...

Lets not get too excited about calling out others on their beliefs...reality is built on belief structures.



.

In regards to the above post..just so you know...I made it all up.

thedoc wrote: ↑Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:12 am

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:54 pm nothing knows it is conscious...knowledge informs illusory reality...nothing made the words that made the knowledge

Consciousness is unconscious.

Knowledge makes it appear conscious of itself....

Word salad at it's best.

Well done, clap clap...how very clever, do you want a gold star for that correct observation?

One more gold star for you to archive away to your memory store..one more tick for your cliché score card.

Ever listened to children under 6 discussing life...?

All make belief.

Adults are children who have had all their beliefs altered by other believers ... beliefs we are absolutely sure about ...


.

Who has got the correct knowledge?

And where did they get it from?

Oh, I got mine from a book...oh, really, I got mine from my father, oh really, I got mine from the milkman...oh really, I got mine from that university lecturer ..oh really, I got mine from my cat ..

.

Oh really, I got mine from the TV...it said, if I don't use this particular brand of beauty product I will be an ugly unlovable person. But if I did use it it will knock ten years off my life, and I will be adored by everyone, some even hating me by being jealous of my ageless timeless beauty because they can't afford the price of the product...it being like £300 for a small pot...that you could have made yourself for £2

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thedoc wrote: ↑Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:42 pm
The strong nuclear force. It's strong enough to overcome the electromagnetic force but is very short ranged, basically the size of the nucleus of the atom.

Is it a bird, is it a plane..?.....noooo, it's a strong nuclear force...didn't you know that?

But what the heck is that really?

Can you feel me brother..can you feel the farce.

As usual, everyone is wrong on this forum.

Everything including atoms and elementary forces is "conscious" in the hard problem of consciousness sense but that's not gnosis, not really panpsychism and not really panvitalism. It can't be expressed using any Western philosophy idea.

But that says nothing in particular about the strong nuclear force either. Atoms by themselves don't know shit let alone how to build a universe.

The word did it.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:08 am
Ever listened to children under 6 discussing life...?
.

Some of the best conversations I ever had, especially if you let the child steer the conversation and don't try to dominate because you are older.