Philosophy Now Forum

henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:23 pm Should a person be legally obligated to render assistance?

Nope.

It would be nice if folks did assist, but expressions of compassion are -- by defintion -- voluntary. Compelled action is a kind of slavery.

So: shun the teens, if you like, but don't prosecute them.

Pretty much my fears about the issue.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:16 pm I don't think prison is the answer either. That's why I suggest a uniquely appropriate retribution. Like, find out what matters to them, and take that away from them for a good chunk of time -- and make them face and listen to the loved-ones of the person who died -- and make them learn about the person they watched die -- and make them read all of the comments from people who are disgusted with them. I actually think this would be more effective than prison for many crimes!

Oh, and while I'm at it, my punishment for rapists would be to hand them over to a prison gang to deliver the same treatment to them for a period of time.

I'm right there with you that the US criminal justice system needs reform, but the rapist thing is always just insane to me. Often times, rapists were sexually abused as kids. Making a rape farm in prison to punish other rapists is going to do the very opposite of preventing it in the future. Not to mention the varying statistics on the amount of false rape allegations, or that a lot of lesser people are in prison too.

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:52 pm Making a rape farm in prison to punish other rapists is going to do the very opposite of preventing it in the future.

How do you figure that? I think it would be a good deterrent.

Not to mention the varying statistics on the amount of false rape allegations, or that a lot of lesser people are in prison too.

Well I agree with you that such a thing should only be used when there is absolutely no doubt of someone's guilt.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:02 am How do you figure that? I think it would be a good deterrent.

No one in their right mind takes the idea of 'torture by rape' seriously; The biggest neocons wouldn't sign off on it. I would actually argue that the very existence of a sort of rape farm would be proof against its effectiveness. Obviously it's not working for the people raping the rapists. To take things out of our society, you don't go normalizing it in another. That's absolutely ridiculous.

The vast majority of people are aware that rape is bad (in our culture anyway) but they do it anyway, usually due to an underlying mental issue. Or a drug like alcohol brings that to the surface. They're not lacking some realization that would be fixed by getting raped themselves. You're just giving them more mental problems.

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:52 am No one in their right mind takes the idea of 'torture by rape' seriously

We do all kinds of things that you wouldn't think people would take seriously.

So, what's your idea for deterring rape?

Lacewing wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:09 am

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:52 am No one in their right mind takes the idea of 'torture by rape' seriously

We do all kinds of things that you wouldn't think people would take seriously.

So, what's your idea for deterring rape?

What we do now is actually pretty effective vs other leading nations, when you look into the real rape statistics. I would prefer more rehabilitation focusing than corporal punishment in the prisons themselves, as I suggested. Consult with phychologists, and possibly psychiatrists, ensure that prisons actually protect the people inside them, and a few other measures I'm sure I'm forgetting.

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:24 pm I would prefer more rehabilitation focusing than corporal punishment in the prisons themselves, as I suggested. Consult with phychologists, and possibly psychiatrists, ensure that prisons actually protect the people inside them, and a few other measures I'm sure I'm forgetting.

That's what I would prefer too. But if we're comparing one form of punishment to another, I thought my idea was rather creative.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:37 pm

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:24 pm I would prefer more rehabilitation focusing than corporal punishment in the prisons themselves, as I suggested. Consult with phychologists, and possibly psychiatrists, ensure that prisons actually protect the people inside them, and a few other measures I'm sure I'm forgetting.

That's what I would prefer too. But if we're comparing one form of punishment to another, I thought my idea was rather creative.

It's not, it's really really dumb, and has no precedent of working in any other society.

Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:19 pm

Lacewing wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:37 pm That's what I would prefer too. But if we're comparing one form of punishment to another, I thought my idea was rather creative.

It's not, it's really really dumb, and has no precedent of working in any other society.

Maybe you're dumb.

The fact that this thread went from Good Samaritan laws to rape-as-retribution is a perfect indicator of the sorry state of incarceration in America - http://247bailbondslv.com/yes-u-s-locks ... e-country/.

Scared, angry, financially-impotent white men, sitting around in front of their computers talking about what "they" would be doing is a farce.

America already locks up more people per capita than any other nation and concepts as those being peddled here are as far-fetched as believing Dorothy really did meet the Wizard.

terry18 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:43 am The fact that this thread went from Good Samaritan laws to rape-as-retribution is a perfect indicator of the sorry state of incarceration in America - http://247bailbondslv.com/yes-u-s-locks ... e-country/.

Scared, angry, financially-impotent white men, sitting around in front of their computers talking about what "they" would be doing is a farce.

I'm pretty sure Lacewing is actually a 'scared, angry, financially-impotent white' woman sitting in front of her computer.

I'm wondering what laws people here know of in their jurisdiction that compel people to call for help or authorities.

There have been many disputes regarding lawyer:client and doctor:patient privilege, where the state compels them to break professional confidentiality. Also ISPs. These obligations, though, are largely corporate. Are there any laws where individual civilians are compelled to lend assistance or call for help in their free time?

Lacewing wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:09 am So, what's your idea for deterring rape?

If you invoke the Death penalty, that person will not commit that crime again.

thedoc wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:43 am

Lacewing wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:09 am So, what's your idea for deterring rape?

If you invoke the Death penalty, that person will not commit that crime again.

Low crime rate in Singapore.

The question is: freedom or security?

“Data suggests that the key lies not in the severity of punishment, but in certainty of being caught and punished.”
- ATIPONG PATHANASETHPONG
https://singaporepolicyjournal.com/2015 ... unishment/

*

Why the callous youth who filmed a dying man? It stands to reason that a powerless child denied mercy, when the sincere plea is for mercy, will become a mercy-denying youth.

The youths in this incident are not remorseful. That would require giving up the world-view of mercy-denial that brought them this far.

Not many are willing to change their view, even a merciless world-view. View begins reasoning such as it is, and will be defended before it is changed.

Lacewing wrote:...
Oh, and while I'm at it, my punishment for rapists would be to hand them over to a prison gang to deliver the same treatment to them for a period of time.

Some might say our current justice system "works". But does it help us evolve? ...

Will allowing homosexual gang-rape evolve someone?

People who commit crimes don't seem deterred by it. ...

Ever thought that having roughly three out of five of prisoners illiterate might have something to do with recidivism rates?

Wonders of wonders I agree with Walker.