Philosophy Now Forum

Are human beings going to hell in a handcart dragging the rest of natures innocent beauty along with us?

Are we self fulfilling an unconscious desire to self destruct?

Have we willed an end to our self inflicted suffering. Are we going to end up like a dog eating it's own vomit, when we puke from our nuke, the gift we gave to ourselves.

Or is there a better way to live that we just haven't realised yet? ..if we have overall authority on our lives, don't you think it's about time we put that conscientious rational intelligent mind to use?

Or is it just much easier to live in a hell hole because no one is watching but us and what we do to ourselves? is this what we want?

Dontaskme wrote:

ken wrote:

Dontaskme wrote:Overeating makes me puke.

Do you like puking?

If not, then why do you continue to overeat?

I don't overeat because I know it makes me puke, so I have to be careful not to take in too much food at one time, my stomach is overly sensitive.

Lots of people do overeat. Evidenced in the ever increasing rise of not just average weigh gain but to the proportionate state of morbid obesity. I'm wondering why they do this...are they genuinely constantly hungry all the time, or is there some underlying problem they are not able to deal with?

Also, food is so cheap, especially junk food. Here in the UK ..you can buy 5 jam doughnuts for 50p..or spend up to a £1 for a decent branded banana, apple or orange. ...also, there is all the buy one get one free offers that are tempting us to overeat. There is much more choice of foods today to the point of too much choice. I see in the world a lot of people who are literally eating and drinking themselves to death with no appearent care for their health, or showing the capacity to adopt some kind of self control. Food has also become readily available 24/7 in conveniently wrapped lunch to go packets. No one seems to have any time to cook a decent nutritious meal for themselves anymore. Too busy working for money to buy more food and more stuff they don't need or want. Oh the stress of modern day living, call this progress, send my back to the Victorian age any day.

.

Not sure why that makes me laugh. It just does.

Greta wrote:

ForCruxSake wrote:

Greta wrote:Metaphorically: our (including me) inability to stay grounded in reality or, if drifting into the mental world, to use the imagination positively.

DAM, please pardon me if I use your thread to get something off my chest. I look at this forum and see a gaggle of nobodies pointlessly trying to tear each other down. The hostility, anger, fragility, misrepresentations and quickness to freak out over nothing continues to amaze me. I don't even know why I am here. I suspect it's ghoulishness, like watching the aftermath of a car crash. Or a character-building exercise.

It's as though most here are little tinderboxes ready to blow, seemingly reflective of the US's deteriorating mood in recent years. What makes me metaphorically puke most is the frustration of finding myself responding negatively to someone else's negativity - that even at my age experience I have not yet grown enough to not let silly bullshit affect me. Duh.

It's difficult to maintain high spirits when so many around you are struggling, miserable or full of anger - locally, online, all of the news, our increasingly irrational, corrupt and myopic polity etc.

Yet this is madness. Even if our situation is deteriorating (and yes, there are immediate issues on both individual and social scales) most of us still live in some of the best and safest conditions experienced by human beings in history. Most of human history was truly awful - short lives, high infant mortality, predators, parasites, sacrifices and so on. The take home message is that, generally, life sucks enormously and it's amazing that we humans have managed to eke out relatively gentle existences for themselves at all, even if the gentleness is seemingly short-lived and never managed to quite go global (at this stage).

The histories of the universe and Earth that we've learned about so far suggest that reality over time becomes more complex, sophisticated and interesting, so even our demise will probably lead to something better than us. Hopefully whatever replaces humankind will make even better and more sustainable lives for themselves.

Even the fact that people are becoming increasingly negative, anxious and depressed might play into this process somehow, being necessary to bring about much-needed significant global change. Those who are content and relaxed in life have something to lose and are less likely to make waves than those feeling a sense of loss.

// end rant. Ahhh Sorry for babbling on.

You have no idea how pertinent this is.*
Like coming across a sandwich, with your name on it, when you're hungry. Thank you.

*Or maybe you do. You did, after all, write it.

Cheers, I'm glad it resonated. I'd have been surprised if at least some others didn't feel similarly. The discontent is hard to miss!

You expect competition for influence in the meme pool, but the intensity is increasingly disproportionate IMO. Most of the stuff we talk about isn't as important as paying bills, maintaining health and relationships, being mindful of consumption, and other vital practical everyday things, it's just more interesting. And that's why I am here

I think it may well be the one post that resonated the majority of users here. Beautifully put and understanding of the malaise of the times, certainly here in the UK, and here on the forum.

All those practical things feel like they are about to get harder for the general populace, and it makes me furious how manipulated we are by the government and the media. We've always been manipulated but these days they don't even throw us back a choice morsel, or two, to make us feel that we are actually being heard, or represented.

Here on the forum, whilst I love what certain people have to say (-some of it very quotable), it's hard work trying to navigate, and not be affected by, what I perceive as other people's hate filled, whining, and inability to discuss, openly and with grace. I originally came with a hidden motive, and once that ceased to matter, stayed because some of the people here do make philosophy, and themselves, accessible and interesting. Unfortunately, it's the time and energy navigating people's attempts to manipulate you, or deal with childlike, expletive filled, outbursts, which you yourself begin to emulate in the hope that by speaking the same language you might get through, that's making the forum feel more like a street corner, to me, where individuals, and their cronies, hang out to pounce out of a sense of pure boredom, rather than a love for what is interesting here.

I've tried to imagine how my local library would be, filled with the forum characters here. That'd be a laugh! Though I feel police sirens might be a regular sound, as blood would be spilt and charges of public disorder order dispensed. The 'big philosophy boys' as I like to call some of you guys, would be up in the reference section, where the leather seats and tabletops are, and the sound of their thinking would be louder than their occasionally whispered voices. Downstairs, the rowdier elements would be found in fiction, arguing the toss and being renavigated to the non-fiction aisles, but somehow they would always gravitate back to fiction. There'd be a few in the children's section, myself included, watching the even smaller kids trying not to throw rattles out of prams, and in some cases prams out of rattles, as they are so whimsically nonsensical.

This place needs people like you. I'm not sure there's enough 'love' here to stay myself. I'm not talking about the love that some seem to associate with the assent of ideas... as if every argument has to end with assent, or a winner and loser...because who comes to a philosophy site to agree! I'm talking about the ability to discuss, and disagree, with intelligence and grace. Appreciating how lucky you are to be in a place where you can discuss openly and with grace.

I've attracted people I wouldn't have to engage with in the real world, and put up with belligerent, expletive filled rants, that go round and round in circles... that wouldn't pass muster in the real world. Some of what's been said here could possibly invoke the public disorder act, which doesn't deny free speech, but disallows free speech to descend into offence. I do believe that anarchy can be constructive. I just don't think it is here. The self-help that emerges in less 'ruled' communities doesn't seem to exist here. Few wade in to help their fellow users. In my experience, when it has happened around me, it's just with a view to humiliating someone's opponent, rather than supporting the thoughts of the person who you are wading in to defend. Clearly I don't spend enough time with the 'big boys' who really know how to argue. I'm stuck in kindergarten.

I do believe this forum needs better regulation, just like I believe every nation-state needs proper self-regulation, and would pass the rule-making on to people like you. People who genuinely and openly care about others, and the community. They should make you a moderator here but I'm not sure that moderators are meant to exist here. It feels like a failing experiment in constructivist anarchy. Not many feel 'safe' enough to join, let alone stay. It takes a certain type of 'engager' to stay here. I'm working out if that's me...

Oh dear, now I'm babbling on ... and should end my rant... I think I intended it to be a celebration of your wonderful post. Now it feels like I'm checking in baggage, as I wave farewell, to fly to greener pastures.

ForCruxSake,

ForCruxSake wrote:... that's making the forum feel more like a street corner, to me, ...

Think more slightly seedy pub with passing trade and a few assorted regulars.

I know it's a pain of a place at times and some come here just because they've been banned everywhere else but to be honest most of the other philosophy sites are pretty dull and some are ruled by complete knobs.

You can always use the 'foe' function and despite what you think there is moderation here but we expect thread owners to do a bit of work themselves. So if you report a post on your thread as off-topic, abusive or whatnot you'll find we'll generally support you and will delete the post. What we don't generally do is police the members but what normally happens is sooner or later we get fed-up with a members repeated behaviour and just ban them with no explanation or warning.

AMod.

AMod wrote:ForCruxSake,

ForCruxSake wrote:... that's making the forum feel more like a street corner, to me, ...

Think more slightly seedy pub with passing trade and a few assorted regulars.

I know it's a pain of a place at times and some come here just because they've been banned everywhere else but to be honest most of the other philosophy sites are pretty dull and some are ruled by complete knobs.

You can always use the 'foe' function and despite what you think there is moderation here but we expect thread owners to do a bit of work themselves. So if you report a post on your thread as off-topic, abusive or whatnot you'll find we'll generally support you and will delete the post. What we don't generally do is police the members but what normally happens is sooner or later we get fed-up with a members repeated behaviour and just ban them with no explanation or warning.

AMod.

Hi AMod! This is a nice surprise!

The seedy pub image works for me.

The foe thing seems redundant to me. You can still see them in the thread flow, their comments are just 'folded away'. On a philosophy site how are expected to follow the thought? Users you respect will be responding to those you can't see. It's all a bit redundant. In my opinion, the best way to get users 'behaving responsibly, is by allowing thread creators to block foes from entering threads they might start. That way you get a clean dialogue going, with the flow of thought intact. If they wish to enter your thread, they have to change the way they interact. Giving thread users that bit of actual control would be an enormous help. I'm happy ignoring certain people. They just can't seem to ignore me. In a seedy pub, they might at least have the courteousy of buying you a drink before they attempt to put their hand up your skirt/down your trousers!

I like that you do take reports seriously but right now, I can't even PM anyone. I have two posts stuck in my Outbox, failing to send. I've successfully sent PMs before so have no idea what I'm doing, or is going, wrong. I have no idea how I'm supposed to report things if I can't send a PM to you. It'd be great if you could sort that out.

I've tried to email you (mods/admin), a while ago, about trolling and what the rules might be concerning that, and only recently received a reply after a second PM.

Greta wrote:
DAM, please pardon me if I use your thread to get something off my chest. I look at this forum and see a gaggle of nobodies pointlessly trying to tear each other down. The hostility, anger, fragility, misrepresentations and quickness to freak out over nothing continues to amaze me. I don't even know why I am here. I suspect it's ghoulishness, like watching the aftermath of a car crash. Or a character-building exercise.

It's as though most here are little tinderboxes ready to blow, seemingly reflective of the US's deteriorating mood in recent years. What makes me metaphorically puke most is the frustration of finding myself responding negatively to someone else's negativity - that even at my age experience I have not yet grown enough to not let silly bullshit affect me. Duh.

You are right when you say 'most' and not 'all'. Not all of us respond negatively to negativity nor do we try to tear others down. Some of us just react unemotionally and respond with only what we think, know, and/or see.

Greta wrote:It's difficult to maintain high spirits when so many around you are struggling, miserable or full of anger - locally, online, all of the news, our increasingly irrational, corrupt and myopic polity etc.

Is this just an excuse?

I agree it is more difficult to maintain higher spirits when so many people around are like the above, but blaming another for how one is feeling and reacting is not taking responsibility for one's self.

As a truly responsible adult there is NO excuse for not maintaining the highest Spirit.

Allowing anything to affect one's self, as an adult, is showing how that individual has really not grown up at all yet.

Greta wrote:Yet this is madness. Even if our situation is deteriorating (and yes, there are immediate issues on both individual and social scales) most of us still live in some of the best and safest conditions experienced by human beings in history. Most of human history was truly awful - short lives, high infant mortality, predators, parasites, sacrifices and so on.

And in the future people will continue to also say how truly awful - et cetera - and so on, about a prior day and age.

Greta wrote:The take home message is that, generally, life sucks enormously and ...

To Me Life, Itself, does not suck at all. Human beings just like to place labels on 'Life'. These labels come from the perspective a person has or holds at a particular time.

Greta wrote:... it's amazing that we humans have managed to eke out relatively gentle existences for themselves at all, even if the gentleness is seemingly short-lived and never managed to quite go global (at this stage).

At this stage true enlightenment is not quite global yet. But it will be global soon and with that a truly gentle and loving life follows.

Greta wrote:The histories of the universe and Earth that we've learned about so far suggest that reality over time becomes more complex, sophisticated and interesting, so even our demise will probably lead to something better than us. Hopefully whatever replaces humankind will make even better and more sustainable lives for themselves.

There is nothing to worry about because what does unify humankind and replaces the separate thinking individuals is a much better being; One that knows how to live completely sustainably.

In the future reality, Life, living and being alive, overtime, actually becomes far more simpler and easier than it appears to be now, but living will always remain just as interesting as it is now and always has been.

Greta wrote:Even the fact that people are becoming increasingly negative, anxious and depressed might play into this process somehow, being necessary to bring about much-needed significant global change.

This is good foresight.

Greta wrote:Those who are content and relaxed in life have something to lose and are less likely to make waves than those feeling a sense of loss.

That may be true at the moment, but it will become clear how there is actually nothing to lose. And, the most beautiful thing that arises with that knowledge is it brings with it a truly contented and relaxed way of life.

commonsense wrote:I liked reading your post, G. Thanks for mentioning many of my own metaphorically nauseating complaints about negativity. I also liked your post because your babbling (your phrase, not mine) raised an intriguing question hidden near the end of your post, one that will require the use of positive imagination: when something better replaces humankind, what will it look like? Will it be an entity that creates sustainable living just by not doing everything that humankind does now? Will it be a society comprised entirely of beings that are relaxed and contented? Will it have some type of universal formula for hope? What obstacles might lie in its path to some kind of enlightenment? How might this replacement thing handle those hazards? What exactly would happen to hostility and anxiety? Would these replacement beings eventually wear out and need to be replaced by something else?

P.S. Overeating makes me bloat.

All your questions can be very easily answered. But how much time and effort are you prepared to give?

thedoc wrote:

Dontaskme wrote: what doesn't kill you make you stronger,

Bull Shit, that is just an excuse for stupid people to survive doing stupid things. You get stronger by resisting the urge to do stupid things.

I see that quote another way. I see it in relation to say a person who has been wrongly convicted of a crime and is sentenced to imprisonment and/or the death penalty but survives that ordeal. Or for another example a child who is continually abused but survives the ordeal.

By not allowing the wrong being done to you to 'kill you', or in other words 'change you for the worse', that is by taking revenge or by holding a grudge for example, then you will only grow and mature properly, which means become stronger. So I agree, you get stronger by resisting the urge to do stupid things. But I do not see that quote only as an excuse for some people.

Greta wrote:
So in this way, nature seems to basically consist of countless overlapping systems, each a relatively uneasy balancing acts, generally existing on the precipice of annihilation. All of these precarious systems are destined to eventually fall into disequilibrium and feed whatever systems that remain.

There is only One system that exists, which all the systems you refer to, exist within. That One natural system exists in complete equilibrium. There is no thing above, beyond, nor separate from that system of nature.

Greta wrote: Most of the stuff we talk about isn't as important as paying bills, maintaining health and relationships, being mindful of consumption, and other vital practical everyday things, it's just more interesting. And that's why I am here

I find most of the stuff talked about here is far more important than any of the everyday things. What we create now by what we talk about and do now, for future generations, to Me is far more important than only thinking about, caring about, and doing for one's own self and a few select others.

What is talked about in philosophy may be far more important but this is all lost by the way people talk, argue, and fight about it.

It is obvious that every individual has a different perspective about each individual topic, this is clearly shown here. What is really important is how we discuss the issues. If, and when, human beings can discuss in a way that shows we each already know that the other has a different view, and different views really are unimportant. What is of utmost importance in being able to live in a truly peaceful and harmonious existence is to just find and look at 'what it is' that we ALL agree with.

Dontaskme wrote:
Is human sentient mind as good as it's ever going to get, or are we the custodial keepers of a higher mind that has overall absolute power and control of life?

Human beings are the custodial keepers of the highest Mind, which has overall absolute power and control of Life.

AMod wrote:... some are ruled by complete knobs.

How so?

Dontaskme wrote:

ken wrote:

Dontaskme wrote:Overeating makes me puke.

Do you like puking?

If not, then why do you continue to overeat?

I don't overeat because I know it makes me puke, so I have to be careful not to take in too much food at one time, my stomach is overly sensitive.

Sorry I thought you must of continued to overeat in order to work out that it makes you puke. But now that you do not overeat you must not puke anymore, which must be a good feeling.

Dontaskme wrote:Lots of people do overeat. Evidenced in the ever increasing rise of not just average weigh gain but to the proportionate state of morbid obesity. I'm wondering why they do this

If this is what you are really wondering, then asking, what makes you puke, and then saying that overeating makes you puke seems to be a funny way to get an answer to why lots of other people overeat.

Dontaskme wrote:...are they genuinely constantly hungry all the time, or is there some underlying problem they are not able to deal with?

Human beings, generally, mostly do what reduces pain and increases pleasure. Eating and overeating are two things that both provide a reduction in pain and an increase in pleasure.[/quote]

But if you are wondering about why people overeat in a case by case basis, then you will need to provide more information about each individual case. For Me to explain in full detail why each person eats to much I need to have more information.

Dontaskme wrote:Also, food is so cheap, especially junk food. Here in the UK ..you can buy 5 jam doughnuts for 50p..or spend up to a £1 for a decent branded banana, apple or orange. ...also, there is all the buy one get one free offers that are tempting us to overeat. There is much more choice of foods today to the point of too much choice. I see in the world a lot of people who are literally eating and drinking themselves to death with no appearent care for their health, or showing the capacity to adopt some kind of self control. Food has also become readily available 24/7 in conveniently wrapped lunch to go packets. No one seems to have any time to cook a decent nutritious meal for themselves anymore. Too busy working for money to buy more food and more stuff they don't need or want. Oh the stress of modern day living, call this progress, send my back to the Victorian age any day.

There is about only four things each and every human being needs. Wants however can be countless.

Life, Itself, has never been and never will be stressful. Only human beings make living in present times appear stressful.

Personally i want to be taken back to before human beings started wanting more than they needed OR be sent forward into the not to distant future were people are again living in peace and harmony with nature again.

But then again I am in the perfect place right HERE and NOW, where I am meant to be.

ken wrote:

Greta wrote: Most of the stuff we talk about isn't as important as paying bills, maintaining health and relationships, being mindful of consumption, and other vital practical everyday things, it's just more interesting. And that's why I am here :)

I find most of the stuff talked about here is far more important than any of the everyday things.

I take your point but there's a lot more deep (and influential) material out there than the stuff generally spoken about online, here and elsewhere. Yet we are here. It's easier on the brain :)

Dontaskme wrote:Are human beings going to hell in a handcart dragging the rest of natures innocent beauty along with us?

Are we self fulfilling an unconscious desire to self destruct?

Have we willed an end to our self inflicted suffering. Are we going to end up like a dog eating it's own vomit, when we puke from our nuke, the gift we gave to ourselves.

Or is there a better way to live that we just haven't realised yet? ..if we have overall authority on our lives, don't you think it's about time we put that conscientious rational intelligent mind to use?

Or is it just much easier to live in a hell hole because no one is watching but us and what we do to ourselves? is this what we want?

The reason why human beings have not yet realised the much better way to live is because adult human beings do not listen.

Unfortunately young human beings listen to much and they inevitably follow what they have been told to do by adults. Adult human beings teach young human beings to do what adults do, and adults were never taught to remain open and listen. Human beings are taught that they have to believe in some things, to fight for and follow those things, and thus people end up not listening to what others have to say. Adults grow up believing that they already know the best way to live so they just continue to do what they have been unconsciously told to do, and that is to not listen to others. This is the reason for all the belittling, bickering, disagreeing, fighting, and putting down of others on forums like this one here.