Philosophy Now Forum

Lacewing wrote:

thedoc wrote:...unfortunately some will reject the the evidence and continue to deny god's existence.

Why is it unfortunate that many don't use the idea/belief of a god if it's not useful for them?

It is unfortunate that some will reject what they perceive, and in spite of what some claim, people perceive the real world and what is there. To deny reality is unfortunate and a bit foolish.

thedoc wrote:

Lacewing wrote:Why is it unfortunate that many don't use the idea/belief of a god if it's not useful for them?

It is unfortunate that some will reject what they perceive, and in spite of what some claim, people perceive the real world and what is there. To deny reality is unfortunate and a bit foolish.

Are you saying that people (in general) see evidence of a god but reject it? And are you saying that the "real world" and "reality" for everyone includes the particular god you believe in, whether they see it or not?

Wouldn't it be more likely that people reject the notion of a god based on other awareness/insight that informs them? And might there be many people who very reasonably and clearly see and feel and experience a whole lot of other possibilities than the particular god you see and believe in?

Why would you be in a position to name a god that is or should be for everyone? What is the payoff for you seeing yourself in such a role?

Funny religious nuts always claim to 'know' their invisible friend exists, yet kick up a stink when others say they know he doesn't. I mean seriously, who's more likely to be right?

Lacewing wrote:

thedoc wrote:

Lacewing wrote:Why is it unfortunate that many don't use the idea/belief of a god if it's not useful for them?

It is unfortunate that some will reject what they perceive, and in spite of what some claim, people perceive the real world and what is there. To deny reality is unfortunate and a bit foolish.

Are you saying that people (in general) see evidence of a god but reject it? And are you saying that the "real world" and "reality" for everyone includes the particular god you believe in, whether they see it or not?

Wouldn't it be more likely that people reject the notion of a god based on other awareness/insight that informs them? And might there be many people who very reasonably and clearly see and feel and experience a whole lot of other possibilities than the particular god you see and believe in?

Why would you be in a position to name a god that is or should be for everyone? What is the payoff for you seeing yourself in such a role?

I don't believe in a "particular God" but I believe that God exists, even if I don't know the particulars of that God. And yes, many people see the evidence of God but reject it and refuse to see it. There is no payoff for me individually, I am willing to accept that others can be wrong, and there is nothing I can do about it, I am content to reach only those who will listen to me. Do you see a payoff for yourself by preaching that there is no God?

attofishpi wrote: And one that was informed from the aether that Jesus is the Christ.

So ask me any quest.ion - you and i are all on a 'quest' and we are little more than ions.

I will be honest and frank in my knowledge of God\'God'.

What does it mean to be the Christ? What is the significance of being the Christ? What if he had not been the Christ and just been Jesus? Would what he said become less valuable? Suppose Jesus had just been a man claiming to be God? Would what he said be less true? Do you believe in what he said because he is the Christ or because it sounds true to you?

Your words can not, and will not testify God's existence. It's a waste of time to try, on this forum or anywhere else.
Your presence, however, something in between the lines and words, can make one consider the idea that there is something more than flesh.... It happened to me with some people I met, and I try to not forget this important lesson.

However, considering books like Bible or Quran or other (or anything written for that matter), I have never in my adulthood found there anything that would have made me believe even slightly that "God" existed.

thedoc wrote:And yes, many people see the evidence of God but reject it and refuse to see it.

What many accept as 'evidence' is provided by scripture; only within its pages does God exist as a fictional superpower accepted as real. If there were actual evidence, there would be NO argument.

Do you see a payoff for yourself by preaching that there is no God?

Why would one even expect a payoff in the acknowledgement that there is no god which merely conforms to reality as encountered? On the other hand the only payoff for belief is wish fulfillment. What other purpose or payoff could there be? It just "feels" good!

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:Funny religious nuts always claim to 'know' their invisible friend exists, yet kick up a stink when others say they know he doesn't. I mean seriously, who's more likely to be right?

They're both right.

Dontaskme wrote:

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:Funny religious nuts always claim to 'know' their invisible friend exists, yet kick up a stink when others say they know he doesn't. I mean seriously, who's more likely to be right?

They're both right.

Oh right.

Ginkgo wrote:

attofishpi wrote:I was reluctant to start this thread but as i sat at my keyboard - my sage or God insisted on tapping me on my right shoulder 'right' do this.

I will tell you what i KNOW about God\'God' - and what i BELIEVE based on my experience of God\'God'.

I should start with that i am a Panentheist. And one that was informed from the aether that Jesus is the Christ.

So ask me any quest.ion - you and i are all on a 'quest' and we are little more than ions.

I will be honest and frank in my knowledge of God\'God'.

http://www.androcies.com

I don't know if God exists or not, however I am interested as to why you think God exists. Btw I will not be offering any criticism.

You're welcome to critiscise thats what an internet forum is all about. My dilema here is that i started this thread after drinking a bottle of vodka (had flare up with Dad again) and at the time would have been overdosed with courage and intent on revealing the ENTIRE story.
Unfortunately i cannot reveal the entire story since i have known God\'God' exists for 19yrs now, and it would involve revealing much personal detail much of which was prior to knowing God exists and poor choices i made. I may still reveal this stuff further thru the thread.
.... I have many times communicated on this forum examples of where i was interacted with from the aether, either from 'God' or a sage. One of the more known ones is from 2005 where i awoke one morning to the words stated to me "Tonight, bad luck." from the aether....later that night i was attacked by someone with a baseball bat and fratured my arm and knows.
I will attempt to find where i have already typed these details, it certainly is important for me to convey as best i can the more explicit interactions i had with this 'entity'.
- see my reply to sthitapragya further down as the perhaps 'why' i know God exists.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:Funny religious nuts always claim to 'know' their invisible friend exists, yet kick up a stink when others say they know he doesn't. I mean seriously, who's more likely to be right?

Just to get on the right track here - Are all 'believers' in some God a religious nut to you?

sthitapragya wrote:

attofishpi wrote: And one that was informed from the aether that Jesus is the Christ.
So ask me any quest.ion - you and i are all on a 'quest' and we are little more than ions.
I will be honest and frank in my knowledge of God\'God'.

What does it mean to be the Christ? What is the significance of being the Christ? What if he had not been the Christ and just been Jesus? Would what he said become less valuable? Suppose Jesus had just been a man claiming to be God? Would what he said be less true? Do you believe in what he said because he is the Christ or because it sounds true to you?

Hi sthit..welcome back.

This is the only way i am going to be able to explain this i think - so i have to get personal about my past.
When i was quite young i had two abortions with a partner that i was seeing on and off. Why she didnt take the pill - i dont know - why i didnt wear a condom - is usually obvious.
<omit>

Many years later reality started to kick me in the balls - the head - everywhere. I would walk to work i had a good job in IT in the city and all the way along the street strangers would call out "You're gone!" "He knows!" "Geek!" "Bigot!"
I knew it was irrational to consider that these people were doing this - that somehow the entire city had conspired to 'fuck' me over. I was abreast in theories of physics re alternate dimensions - and always believed that if there is a God - it would operate via the laws of physics...so my rational explanation was...this was God...my irrational explanation although 19yrs ago was very much at the forefront of my mind, was that im going crazy - and this IS ALL in my mind. I did see a shrink - a psychosis was the narrative.

The next day after work I went to church - i was raised a Catholic - tho my parents were pretty much atheist so fuck knows why. St Francis Xavier - a massive church in the centre of the city. I kneeled at a pew, "Ah, he's praying" was said in a spitefool manner. I started going over my past and saying my sorrys. The church was empty but when i stood there was a note on the bench in front of me - that hadnt, or i admit, i hadnt noticed before. It read "Novena to the sacred heart of Jesus Christ, say this prayer to six friends and .." something i cant remember - i lost the note eventually. Needless to say - i wasnt going to start preaching to my friends or tell them the shit that was going down. - I did tell a couple of trusted friends of course as to what i was experiencing.

That was 1997 ...anyway many many years later and after MUCH worse experiences where i crossed a certain line, it was finally informed to me that "YOU TOOK LIFE.."

Eventually - 2005 - the "sage" introduced himself to me from the aether - but by then - i had already suffered and even still cant recall just how unimaginable the torment was especially in 2003 where i attempted suicide. I gave God the oppotunity after taking a pile of sleeping pills and alcohol and hooking up the exhaust of my car to the interior.

I woke up in bed feeling fine. My car had rolled down and hit the shed with the door open i had a flat car battery.. On my dining room wall was a pencil 'scribble' drawing of an old wizard cradling either a child or the solar system. - I DID NOT DRAW IT! It was awesome - it looked like it had been scribbled so fast but the look on the 'wizards' face as he looked down at whatever he was craddling was amazing - of course - everyone thinks i did it. I had took a photo but have lost it somewhere probably on an old HDD.

I haven't got there yet....do you still want my answer re Christ!!!??

MatejValuch wrote:Your words can not, and will not testify God's existence. It's a waste of time to try, on this forum or anywhere else.
Your presence, however, something in between the lines and words, can make one consider the idea that there is something more than flesh.... It happened to me with some people I met, and I try to not forget this important lesson.

However, considering books like Bible or Quran or other (or anything written for that matter), I have never in my adulthood found there anything that would have made me believe even slightly that "God" existed.

Would you believe that God could be a 'God' - as in something akin to Artificial Intelligence AI that we evolved into aeons ago?

- You know of SIN_AI (Mount Sinai)

My site: www.androcies.com

Dubious wrote:

thedoc wrote:And yes, many people see the evidence of God but reject it and refuse to see it.

What many accept as 'evidence' is provided by scripture; only within its pages does God exist as a fictional superpower accepted as real. If there were actual evidence, there would be NO argument.

I don't limit evidence for God to just the scriptures, the Universe can be seen as evidence for God's existence in spite of claims otherwise. I don't see God as an autonomon as some seem to. God has free will, knows your motives and can choose how to react to stimuli. As long as you are firm in your efforts to disprove God's existence, why should God reveal God's existence to you?

thedoc wrote:I am willing to accept that others can be wrong, and there is nothing I can do about it

Be "wrong" about what? Believing in the god you do?

So, going back to a question I asked before... do you think that the "real world" and "reality" (as you put it) for everyone includes the god you believe in, whether they see it or not?

thedoc wrote:And yes, many people see the evidence of God but reject it and refuse to see it.

Rather than "evidence", I think there are personal experiences which may be very real for an individual and that may steer them in believing one thing or another.

It seems odd to say that many people see evidence of a god but reject it. I don't think that's what is typically going on. I don't think it's some sort of willful denial... and I wonder why a theist would want to see non-theists that way? Is it because such a conclusion denies awareness that there could be any other possibility than a god? In other words, such a conclusion insists that a god exists for everyone, therefore people who aren't noticing it must be refusing it.

There are theists, however, who have acknowledged -- and surely some who secretly suspect -- that there is (or might be) no god for them. But they need to carry on with that belief/lifestyle -- just as any person who becomes attached to certain beliefs about ANYTHING and will continue those beliefs because they don't know how to live/function outside of what is familiar to them, even when much to the contrary of their belief is right in front of them.

thedoc wrote:Universe can be seen as evidence for God's existence

The universe can be seen as a lot of things. Simply attributing it to a god is not "evidence" of that god's existence.

thedoc wrote:Do you see a payoff for yourself by preaching that there is no God?

Do you see me as preaching??? I thought I was just offering another point of view. I don't tell other people not to believe in a god. I think everyone should do whatever suits them. I don't think other people should tell me that their god is part of my reality whether I believe it or not. That's presumptuous and imposing. You, doc, are a nice theist who walks their talk... but there are many theists who are not like that at all. They spew hatred while screaming about their association with a god. And that demonstrates how it can be made up on an individual basis. Some use the god concept to do good and be the best of themselves... some use it to justify or to conceal or deny their "evil"... and some use it to glorify themselves. It's whatever a person makes it into... and there are countless creative variations of it!

Most theists want their version of God to be acknowledged as the ultimate truth over all people... and yet they don't seem able to acknowledge how unrealistic that is (considering all the versions)... and yes, I think there's certainly a personal payoff in positioning oneself with ultimate truth.

Why couldn't it be possible that there are many "earth-based" realities... ALL equally "realistic" and/or viable while we're here? And why couldn't it make sense that our attempts to extend our earth-based realities BEYOND that, are little more than fanciful imaginings of sweet little dreamers who can dream up many, many things? Is it offensive or threatening to suggest that we have such limitations?