Philosophy Now Forum

Harbal wrote:

Dalek Prime wrote: Harbal, if this was anyone else, it wouldn't bother me so much. But this is a guy who should know better, as a lecturing philosopher.

No one is infallible.

True enough. Anyone else want to give their views on what constitutes value, particularly intrinsic?

Lacewing wrote:

Dalek Prime wrote:I can't accept that value isn't given by mind. That value in itself is nothing but a thing bestowed by mind.

I agree. Humankind makes up stuff and assigns wide ranges of value to it. There is no built-in, universal value to anything. All value is made-up... including supposed "intrinsic" value. If someone insists that there is intrinsic value, that would seem to indicate that they have an idea of what THAT is, and they think others should think along the same lines. Very human.

However, atop what simply "is", we continually assign and layer all sorts of things as we see fit BECAUSE WE CAN. And then some of us might become especially intoxicated with it, and say, "BEHOLD, look at what I have created! It is GOOD! It is ultimate TRUTH!"

I'm beginning to think my lecturer friend is full of it. Amazing that he does lecture on it. Perhaps he accepts too many things as possible, and can't distinguish between the possible, versus the probable.

Seriously, what is a rock's value to itself? I said his too him, but he dismisses common sense, as though it's wrong-headed and plebian.

Dalek Prime wrote: I'm beginning to think my lecturer friend is full of it.

Does he normally say things that you find hard to accept?


Yo momma sucks! (Just thought I'd save Nick the trouble).

Harbal wrote:

Dalek Prime wrote: I'm beginning to think my lecturer friend is full of it.

Does he normally say things that you find hard to accept?


Yo momma sucks! (Just thought I'd save Nick the trouble).

Not normally. He usually strikes me as quite intelligent, and reasonable. But I think he is confusing possibility with probability ie. Is intrinsic value possible? Sure, why not. I can entertain the idea, briefly. But is it likely? Not to my mind.

I wouldn't expend too many thought waves on anyone's authoritarian thinking habits. Many "philosophers" are as fit to think as most politicians are fit to rule.

For intrinsic value to exist it would need to be independent of any thought process which claims it or determines it. If we or any other 'intelligent" life cannot establish any intrinsic value to the Universe per se, what can be denoted of intrinsic value within it? It's a short way of saying that Life of its own volition cannot claim itself to possess any intrinsic value, its being, its thoughts or its creations. Everything in the Universe refracts to only ONE color in any estimate of value. Imagine the color of that to be total indifference.

Dubious wrote:I wouldn't expend too many thought waves on anyone's authoritarian thinking habits. Many "philosophers" are as fit to think as most politicians are fit to rule.

For intrinsic value to exist it would need to be independent of any thought process which claims it or determines it. If we or any other 'intelligent" life cannot establish any intrinsic value to the Universe per se, what can be denoted of intrinsic value within it? It's a short way of saying that Life of its own volition cannot claim itself to possess any intrinsic value, its being, its thoughts or its creations. Everything in the Universe refracts to only ONE color in any estimate of value. Imagine the color of that to be total indifference.

I think I'm ultimately more frustrated that he has the ability to did discount whatever I say, based on his credentials alone. I mean, here's I guy I would hope to be able to have a real Q&A learning experience with, beyond books, and it's not happening. In fact, it's a negative experience, and makes me want to just shut up and discuss the weather instead. This is a philosophy teacher, for God's sake! I pity his students who do not have the benefit of years in experience and reflection.

Then, he wants to form a group to study RG Collingwood, and wants to include me. Why would I want my reading of Collingwood ruined by his interpretation?

Dalek Prime wrote:he has the ability to discount whatever I say, based on his credentials alone.

So can we agree (at least those who are sane among us) that credentials can be (and often are) meaningless and/or greatly limited on all sorts of levels?

Simply create your own impressive "logo", Dalek, to pin on your shirt the next time you talk with this guy -- and when he asks, "What's that?", tell him that you're not at liberty to discuss it with the general public.

Lacewing wrote:

Dalek Prime wrote:he has the ability to discount whatever I say, based on his credentials alone.

So can we agree (at least those who are sane among us) that credentials can be (and often are) meaningless and/or greatly limited on all sorts of levels?

Simply create your own impressive "logo", Dalek, to pin on your shirt the next time you talk with this guy -- and when he asks, "What's that?", tell him that you're not at liberty to discuss it with the general public.

'This T-shirt is devoid of any intrinsic value', or better still, 'I sought intrinsic value, and all I got was this T-shirt. '

Dalek Prime wrote:

I think I'm ultimately more frustrated that he has the ability to did discount whatever I say, based on his credentials alone.

As Socrates was well aware the 'intrinsic value' of a real philosopher is to remain dubious on what appears subjectively certain. My response to this philosopher would be since when has the Socratic tradition become defunct and that assertions based exclusively on the bogus authority of credentials only yields dogma without insight. In principle, what's the difference between an academic who asserts on authority which doesn't advise, acknowledge or penetrate and a Philosopher who thinks on his own. The Philosophy Now article on Kierkegaard makes that difference clear. Philosophy is not a catechism to be memorized and accepted. The halls of academia are nothing more than marbled catacombs.

lol at the title. You must have been in a hurry Dalek.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:lol at the title. You must have been in a hurry Dalek.

Yeah, I know. I'm recovering, or trying to recover, from food poisoning. This whole weekend is turning out really bad. And get this, veg: the weekend before, I was locked of of my home for 36 hours at least. So, it's the past two weekends that really stink. And even then, I have nothing to commend the weekends before these...

Dalek Prime wrote:

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:lol at the title. You must have been in a hurry Dalek.

Yeah, I know. I'm recovering, or trying to recover, from food poisoning. This whole weekend is turning out really bad. And get this, veg: the weekend before, I was locked of of my home for 36 hours at least. So, it's the past two weekends that really stink. And even then, I have nothing to commend the weekends before these...

I've only had food poisoning once in my life, and that was quite enough. You couldn't just break in?

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:

Dalek Prime wrote:

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:lol at the title. You must have been in a hurry Dalek.

Yeah, I know. I'm recovering, or trying to recover, from food poisoning. This whole weekend is turning out really bad. And get this, veg: the weekend before, I was locked of of my home for 36 hours at least. So, it's the past two weekends that really stink. And even then, I have nothing to commend the weekends before these...

I've only had food poisoning once in my life, and that was quite enough. You couldn't just break in?

I just moved in, and didn't want to start on a bad footing. Besides, it's a perfectly good door and lock. So, I took a cab to a motel, the driver drive off, I was without a phone, it was the middle of the night, and they told me.... No vacancy. So I went for a long walk, and booked the next night.

Dalek Prime wrote:

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:

Dalek Prime wrote:
Yeah, I know. I'm recovering, or trying to recover, from food poisoning. This whole weekend is turning out really bad. And get this, veg: the weekend before, I was locked of of my home for 36 hours at least. So, it's the past two weekends that really stink. And even then, I have nothing to commend the weekends before these...

I've only had food poisoning once in my life, and that was quite enough. You couldn't just break in?

I just moved in, and didn't want to start on a bad footing. Besides, it's a perfectly good door and lock. So, I took a cab to a motel, the driver drive off, I was without a phone, it was the middle of the night, and they told me.... No vacancy. So I went for a long walk, and booked the next night.

36 hours. That's a looong walk. I take it there were no bear encounters.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:

Dalek Prime wrote:

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: I've only had food poisoning once in my life, and that was quite enough. You couldn't just break in?

I just moved in, and didn't want to start on a bad footing. Besides, it's a perfectly good door and lock. So, I took a cab to a motel, the driver drive off, I was without a phone, it was the middle of the night, and they told me.... No vacancy. So I went for a long walk, and booked the next night.

36 hours. That's a looong walk. I take it there were no bear encounters.

I did play with a group of little brown bats, just before dawn. They chase articles I throw in the air. Yes, I'm clearly a bit eccentric....

No, the walk only lasted til a friend opened his shop. Then I waited to book a room for a night.