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Re: Living Ones Philosophy
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 7:07 pm
by Nick_A
Lacewing you are in the majority. Your idol is the Great Beast.
From Simone Weil's Gravity and Grace:
The Great Beast [society, the collective] is the only object of idolatry, the only ersatz of God, the only imitation of something which is infinitely far from me and which is I myself.
It is impossible for me to take myself as an end or, in consequence, my fellow man as an end, since he is my fellow. Nor can I take a material thing, because matter is still less capable of having finality conferred upon it than human beings are.
Only one thing can be taken as an end, for in relation to the human person it possesses a kind of transcendence: this is the collective.
The trouble is that the Great Beast is a creation of the fallen human condition and includes all of its hypocrisy. As such it is doomed to perish in a very violent way. The Beast does not want to die. I have not escaped it. My advantage over you is that I recognize it and do not have it as an idol
Re: Living Ones Philosophy
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 8:58 pm
by Lacewing
Nick_A wrote:Your idol is the Great Beast. /... My advantage over you is that I recognize it and do not have it as an idol
What a thrilling fantasy for you. There is no Great Beast in my reality. But, as usual, you don't recognize your absurdity in TELLING ME what MY IDOL is. It's fascinating how much you must make-up and believe about life and other people in order to validate yourself.
Re: Living Ones Philosophy
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:56 pm
by Nick_A
Lacewing wrote:
What a thrilling fantasy for you. There is no Great Beast in my reality. But, as usual, you don't recognize your absurdity in TELLING ME what MY IDOL is. It's fascinating how much you must make-up and believe about life and other people in order to validate yourself.
You previously wrote:
Oh yes... I forgot to include that you like to talk about "the few" who are able to do/recognize such-and-such... and of course you include yourself in these few... and no one else on this site is in that special few. We've heard it so many times from others. If only you recognized the "crowd" you are actually a part of. It is a crowd that crows of its own awareness/superiority/rightness, and blindly denies the magnificence and validity of all else and all others. Which ironically and certainly must be the greatest ignorance there can be.
You think the Great Beast or society itself is magnificent. Most would agree. This is idolatry. I intuitively appreciate what those like Plato, Kierkegaard, and Simone Weil have written about the grand collective.
I’m used to individuals. My mother was appreciated in the field of opera before women were accepted as operatic experts. My sister became a veterinarian before women were accepted in the field. One of my ancestors was an archbishop friendly with Helena Blavatsky the founder of Theosophy. Another ancestor was a highly regarded artist known for his ability to paint the interactions of elemental forces in water. None of them were ever part of a crowd. I respect individuality including those the Beast rejects. It isn’t that I have anything against the crowd. It is what it is. It has its good and bad points. I just do not wish to be a part of it and follow its whims but instead support those like Simone Weil who have dedicated their intellectual and emotional intelligence to experiencing the truths that are the essence of philosophy and religion the Great Beast denies. We have different paths
Re: Living Ones Philosophy
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:15 pm
by Lacewing
Nick_A wrote:You think the Great Beast or society itself is magnificent.
I think ALL OF CREATION is magnificent, Nick. I, too, have always followed my own path, NOT the path of a crowd. I am very individual... accomplishing things that break a lot of conventional rules/ideas... and I am a bit of a hermit. But I'm a happy hermit who respects and loves life. So CRUCIFY me!!!
I can no longer talk to you or read what you write because you are so full of toxicity and falseness... and you spew it onto everyone as if you know all about them. You are a fool... and dangerous in your delusional intoxication. I think you should definitely stay away from children.
Re: Living Ones Philosophy
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:24 pm
by Nick_A
Lacwing wrote:
I am a bit of a hermit. But I'm a happy hermit who respects and loves life. So CRUCIFY me!!!
Why crucify you? Now I see the problem; you were part of Herman's Hermits
Just because a person realizes they are in Platos cave doesn't mean they neither respect or love life. Some of these people love and respect life with an understanding we are both incapable of
I think you should definitely stay away from children.
Well dogs like me and children hang around dogs. It is hard to separate them in the cause of political correctness.
Re: Living Ones Philosophy
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 12:33 am
by FlashDangerpants
What a passive-aggressive little thread this is, you have excelled yourself Nick.
Re: Living Ones Philosophy
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:28 am
by Dalek Prime
Nick_A wrote:D P wrote: Nick_A wrote:
Living a philosophy doesn't make one a philosopher.
Well, what's the bloody point of the OP then? You never asked the question, if living a.philosophy makes one a philosopher. Stop changing the target.
Apparently for you putting a bandage on a wound makes a person a doctor because doctor's put bandages on wounds. That is what has happened to philosophy. Just because a person practices a cause in life like making money which they call their philosophy doesn't make them a philosopher who by definition is attracted to the love of wisdom
How is making a living a part of the OP? Again, you just seem to want to bitch about things no one brought up. When did I say material gain was a philosophy, or a part of mine, other than worldly necessity? You are just looking to be contrary.
Re: Living Ones Philosophy
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:59 am
by Nick_A
D P wrote:
How is making a living a part of the OP? Again, you just seem to want to bitch about things no one brought up. When did I say material gain was a philosophy, or a part of mine, other than worldly necessity? You are just looking to be contrary.
Making a living which is very good and necessary cannot be considered philosophy defined as the love of wisdom. Those who respect the need of the rare few to pursue the love of wisdom do not consider it making a living
Re: Living Ones Philosophy
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 2:08 am
by Impenitent
would nihilists be suicidal or nonchalant?
-Imp
Re: Living Ones Philosophy
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 2:36 am
by Nick_A
Imp wrote:
would nihilists be suicidal or nonchalant?
I don't know how anyone could consider suicide attempts to be pursuing the love of wisdom. If someone is standing on a rooftop threatening to jump and a reporter asks them why they want to kill themselves, would anyone say "I'm pursuing wisdom?" This raises the question if wisdom is experienced on the way down or when they hit the ground?
Re: Living Ones Philosophy
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:34 am
by thedoc
Nick_A wrote:
Making a living which is very good and necessary cannot be considered philosophy defined as the love of wisdom. Those who respect the need of the rare few to pursue the love of wisdom do not consider it making a living
So wisdom is all things divorced from profit and making money, what a stupid thing to say. Some wisdom is concerned with how to make money off of others, Barnum and Bailey were certainly wise in the ways of making money.
Re: Living Ones Philosophy
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:47 am
by Nick_A
Doc wrote:
So wisdom is all things divorced from profit and making money, what a stupid thing to say. Some wisdom is concerned with how to make money off of others, Barnum and Bailey were certainly wise in the ways of making money.
Plato said that philosophy is the love of wisdom. So first of all, how do you Doc define wisdom?
Re: Living Ones Philosophy
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:54 am
by thedoc
Nick_A wrote:Doc wrote:
So wisdom is all things divorced from profit and making money, what a stupid thing to say. Some wisdom is concerned with how to make money off of others, Barnum and Bailey were certainly wise in the ways of making money.
Plato said that philosophy is the love of wisdom. So first of all,
how do you Doc define wisdom?
Wisdom would include a lot of things, including making a profit. How often do fools make a profit.
Re: Living Ones Philosophy
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 4:05 am
by Nick_A
Doc, this description of wisdom comes from Jacob Needleman's book "A Sense of the Cosmos." Do you sense any truth in it? If so is it really meaningful to restrict the idea of wisdom to secular goals?
Every great spiritual teaching speaks of itself in its own way as a mirror of cosmic reality. In the traditions of China the Tao is both the way to truth and the way things are. In christianity the Word is both the teaching of Jesus Christ and the fundamental manifestation of God.
In the Hindu tradition (including Buddhism) Dharma means both duty and the sustaining order of the universe. And in the Hebrew tradition Torahincludes not only law in the sense of the teaching, but also law in the sense of the foundations of God's creation.
.............A well-known passage in the book of Proverbs expresses this idea without ambiguity.
Wisdom is speaking:
The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water...
When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth... when he gave the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment; when he appointed the foundations of the earth: then I was by him...
Now therefore harken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways.
Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not.
(Proverbs 8:22-33)
Wisdom thus speaks not only as the teaching (the instruction) but as the divine pattern of the cosmos.
Re: Living Ones Philosophy
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 4:08 am
by thedoc
Nick_A wrote:
Making a living which is very good and necessary cannot be considered philosophy defined as the love of wisdom. Those who respect the need of the rare few to pursue the love of wisdom do not consider it making a living
Then you should lock yourself away in your Ivory Tower, and think yourself to attain all of human knowledge through the power of your mind alone, since that seems to be your definition of philosophy. Totally unprofitable thinking, with no thought of monetary gain at all.