Philosophy Now Forum

Harbal wrote:

Walker wrote:
Atheism does not center around Yes, God is.

It centers around no, God is not.

Sometimes it centres round, will you shut the fuck up about God, I'm not interested in God.

Speaking of pretty pictures ...

I'm not interested in garbage though beauty walks before me, beauty walks behind me, beauty walks all around me.

marjoram_blues wrote: Well, I would call that speaking with definite style - as with Lacewing - you two don't hold back, do ya' ?

I'm just sick of arguments over the existence of God. It is so absolutely pointless.

marjoram_blues to Harbal wrote: Well, I would call that speaking with definite style - as with Lacewing - you two don't hold back, do ya' ?

Do you want us to?

But I like starting a reply with 'Yeah, no'.....

Walker wrote:

Skip wrote:Sure. But - important as it may seem to you, large as it may loom in your eye - atheism is actually a very small portion of an identity, a personality, a world-view or a system of ideas and convictions. That 'no' at its center figures in the person's life or consciousness about as much as does the 'no' at the center of their unbelief in leprechauns.
The only reason atheism gets so much air-time is that theists can't seem to resist dragging it out and throwing ridiculous accusations at it.

Skip wrote:...atheism is actually a very small portion of an identity,...

The compartmentalizing sophisticate likes to think so. Primacy of ego and all that. And this paints a pretty picture of control until a few tears override the control panel and splash on the paint-by-number canvas. Then the watercolors bleed over the boundary lines.

Do that some more, please. I still can't decide which sucks worse, your psychology or your poetry.

marjoram_blues wrote:
Thanks again, Skip. Appreciate your clear, helpful response which enlightens in more ways than one

I like to share! This is the best biblical reference I've found http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Genesis-Chapter-1/- saves me time and wear on beautiful red leather-bound, gilded King James.

Skip wrote:Do that some more, please. I still can't decide which sucks worse, your psychology or your poetry.

Actually, your reasoning capacity takes the blue ribbon in your sucking contest.

Good news is, you have a lot of room for improvement. With the reasoning.

Sorry to change the subject, just addressing the OP:

Marjoram, I'm a big fan of "maybe", "perhaps", "possibly", "can", "may", "could", "would" and other qualifiers.

I'm not going to claim certainty when I'm not certain, and I'm not certain of many things. So the qualifiers remain, and without apology :)

Greta wrote:Sorry to change the subject, just addressing the OP:

Marjoram, I'm a big fan of "maybe", "perhaps", "possibly", "can", "may", "could", "would" and other qualifiers.

I'm not going to claim certainty when I'm not certain, and I'm not certain of many things. So the qualifiers remain, and without apology

We seem to be on the same page, Greta

Skip wrote:

marjoram_blues wrote:
Thanks again, Skip. Appreciate your clear, helpful response which enlightens in more ways than one

I like to share! This is the best biblical reference I've found http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Genesis-Chapter-1/- saves me time and wear on beautiful red leather-bound, gilded King James.

Excellent find - have bookmarked for future reference, my own Bible being completely worn out.
I find myself being more interested in Phil.of Religion than previously. Not so much the well-worn out 'Argument's from both sides. But the effect that religion has on people; the different interpretations of the same passage, etc. etc.

Clearly you have had a major interest and involvement in this field. I'd love to hear more about the travels; resting points and destinations.
I wouldn't know where to start - in a serious way...
Pictures, photographs or postcards particularly pleasing

Happy accidents: mid-20th century, middle class parents, from different brands of Christianity, in a country curtained with iron, so religion was allowed, but not compulsory. Thus, I had exposure to very different kinds of practice through the grandmothers (one austere small-town Presbyterian; one big city cathedral RC), but without pressure from the parents, who didn't attend church, except sometimes the midnight procession on Christmas eve - at whichever church was close enough for little kids to walk to - and that was for the spectacle, not worship.
Christians do put on a show! That's probably half the attraction, why people keep coming back, disappointment after betrayal: Oh, but the songs! Oh, but the candles... the windows... the robes...the statues...! And the community.

For me as a small inquisitive child, faith was not judged in Yea or Nay; it was in many voices with dissenting opinions, caveats and reservations, but generally comfortable. God was okay; Jesus was tolerant; Mother Mary protected little children, even if they sometimes misbehaved. (And they carried their big flaming hearts on the outside of their blue tunics - huh!) What's not to like?

Greta wrote:Sorry to change the subject, just addressing the OP:

Marjoram, I'm a big fan of "maybe", "perhaps", "possibly", "can", "may", "could", "would" and other qualifiers.

I'm not going to claim certainty when I'm not certain, and I'm not certain of many things. So the qualifiers remain, and without apology

Citing the source: postulates figuratively ask questions, but they literally make unequivocal assertions for analysis via science, philosophy, or religion.

For example:

Awareness must be ready for the truth. If not, then attention will retreat into a delusion, into a story, or into destruction.

Skip wrote:Happy accidents: mid-20th century, middle class parents, from different brands of Christianity, in a country curtained with iron, so religion was allowed, but not compulsory. Thus, I had exposure to very different kinds of practice through the grandmothers (one austere small-town Presbyterian; one big city cathedral RC), but without pressure from the parents, who didn't attend church, except sometimes the midnight procession on Christmas eve - at whichever church was close enough for little kids to walk to - and that was for the spectacle, not worship.
Christians do put on a show! That's probably half the attraction, why people keep coming back, disappointment after betrayal: Oh, but the songs! Oh, but the candles... the windows... the robes...the statues...! And the community.

For me as a small inquisitive child, faith was not judged in Yea or Nay; it was in many voices with dissenting opinions, caveats and reservations, but generally comfortable. God was okay; Jesus was tolerant; Mother Mary protected little children, even if they sometimes misbehaved. (And they carried their big flaming hearts on the outside of their blue tunics - huh!) What's not to like?

Fascinating story - especially the influence of grandparents. In my case, my rather strong and gentle paternal granddad was local and hyper-religious. And down the family tree it crept. God Bless us all. A distant but close maternal grandmum never spoke of it.
Not much of a show in church. I loved Jesus for He loved me. That would be a Yes !

What's not to like?

Next episode?

S 1 E 2

Age 9; reading the Bible. Only the new testament available at my Catholic Grandmother's apartment, where I often stay overnight. She has a budgie, a 3rd floor balcony, a glass case of curios and a full set of encyclopedia! My childless aunt takes me to the theater, ice cream parlour and symphony. And no little brother! It's one of my favourite places.

Mark 11:13 And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet.
14 And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever.

And it withered right up by next morning, according to Matthew.
Hey! This paragon of all virtues killed a tree -- for being normal!! That was nothing more than a tantrum. So, like, he's human. OK
But then,

Matthew 8:30 And there was a good way off from them an herd of many swine feeding.
31 So the devils besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine.
32 And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters.

Now, that's just wrong! What had the pigs ever done to him?
And behold, I grew wary of this Jesus and began to read of his exploits and speeches with a critical eye.
Later, I got a Standard Revised edition to commemorate Canadian citizenship, and that included the OT and utterly destroyed my belief in God. Then, too, in high-school, they taught us some mythology and ancient history and it all came clear.

S1 Ep 2

You remember all that age 9 ? Did you keep a diary?

I can't recall a specific time when I started questioning. I always wanted to jump up, hand in air, please Mr Minister sir - that can't be right.I also wanted to applaud the choir, or children when they finished some performance. Not allowed.

I remember examining the inside cover of the 'King James' Bible. How come this is the Word of God when it is written by men. A bit like when I read the Christmas present tags. Navy knickers from Aunt Bessie, a book from Uncle John. Etc. All of whom I had to write Thank you letters to. So, no Santa then - hmmph.

Just taken a peek inside the Good News Bible ( The Bible Societies/ Harper Collins 1994 ).
Interesting page on quotation rights.

PS despite my questioning, I still believed for years; off and on. Yes but maybe not.

Only 2 episodes ? Think I'll stick to Mark Harmon, NCIS ! Gibbs where are you...