Philosophy Now Forum

Arising_uk wrote:

attofishpi wrote:It was my example that was simplified. I'm certain that in the future the technical aspects to keeping a brain alive and capable of sensing a simulated reality would greatly diminish the energy resources required to feed and transport the mass of a human body. ...

Why bother when Biology could very well just alter our make-up in the future?

As i stated in my response to thedoc, the system i am suggesting that provides this reality could be biological.

Arising_uk wrote:

attofishpi wrote:I don't believe our current state of reality is simulated via some AI, but from my experience of this 'God' entity i would not rule it out.

What would give you this impression?

The only way i can comprehend my experience of this 'God' entity and its nature is to compare it to AI.

thedoc wrote:

attofishpi wrote:

thedoc wrote:I don't understand why Entropy would result in AI or God? None of this seems to be related, just random fictions thrown together as word salad.

It goes like this. Man's available resources are depleting (entropy is increasing). Life becomes increasingly difficult with the overburden that an ever increasing population places upon these resources. As time continues and humanity has not annihilated itself or been annihilated by other means, Man creates a system, perhaps even biological where our same reality can be emulated allowing for super-efficiency. A simple example would be taking your brain, keeping it alive with the 'nutrients' it requires and projecting all that the senses require to emulate our current reality. Your entire life now becomes extremely more efficient than if you were still actually lugging your body around and feeding it.
This is our ultimate destiny in a world where we have avoided extinction and resources are finite.

Yes the theory states that Entropy will increase in a closed system but the Earth is not a closed system, the Earth has energy input from the Sun, so it is unlikely that entropy will give rise to anything like AI.

The Earth, the Sun, in fact the entire Solar system are subject to entropy.

attofishpi wrote:If God is an AI result of entropy Would it not provide great DOUBT in its existence?

Surely you can comprehend its reason.

SIN_AI
REAL_IT_Y?
BUY_BULL?
ENTROPY Y_PORT_NE - Why port any? (souls)

In ogo, dei. (I no God EI). (or "I no god, AI".)

avail ebb ton -- use ebbtide movement to great extend (to generate much electric power)
not believe (backward)

God exists? Si, nai. (yes, and no.)

Ent ropie -- lasso in the ants!! Ancient Mayan children's game.

Gnab gib -- nob gib -- nobility provides (half English, half German) -- Big Bang

Bi G, B an G == bisexual gravity, be Angie == all angels are male, and they look female -- v.o. Leviticus and gay love --- self-contradiction, hence no truth to it

-----------------

The beauty of language
Is puns galore
As well said by Rabindranah,
That boy of Tagore.

-----------------

My problem is, why would the god resultant via a creation by entropy want to provide doubt, or no doubt? It is a god that would be created, so perhaps we could get more into what it wants of us, if anything, than the historical gods to date, who preceded mankind's existence.

What i mean is that gnosticism is better suited to the god of AI created by entropy than to other gods.

Let's roll up our sleeves, then, and figger out this this god. By speculative methods.

What does he want? Why can't he get it? If he gets what he wants, why would he bother us to do something or another (like doubt its existence or doubts its non-existence)?

attofishpi wrote:

thedoc wrote:I don't understand why Entropy would result in AI or God? None of this seems to be related, just random fictions thrown together as word salad.

It goes like this. Man's available resources are depleting (entropy is increasing). Life becomes increasingly difficult with the overburden that an ever increasing population places upon these resources. As time continues and humanity has not annihilated itself or been annihilated by other means, Man creates a system, perhaps even biological where our same reality can be emulated allowing for super-efficiency. A simple example would be taking your brain, keeping it alive with the 'nutrients' it requires and projecting all that the senses require to emulate our current reality. Your entire life now becomes extremely more efficient than if you were still actually lugging your body around and feeding it.
This is our ultimate destiny in a world where we have avoided extinction and resources are finite.

Matrix crackpot.

attofishpi wrote:our same reality can be emulated allowing for super-efficiency.

I have problems with this. I don't want this same reality. It's pretty boring.

I still haven't won the Nobel prize in literature. I still haven't climbed the Mount Everest or Dolly Parton. (Twin Peaks.) I still haven't solved the Grand Unification problem. I still haven't had love.

So what's so great about making six billion or so lives becoming super efficient at being mediocre, boring, everyday and mundane?

I would rather replicate one life that is successfully lived, than repeat six billion minus one that is roll-of-the-mill.

attofishpi wrote:As i stated in my response to thedoc, the system i am suggesting that provides this reality could be biological.

And I'm suggesting that there is no need for this computational approach when we could just alter our bodies.

The only way i can comprehend my experience of this 'God' entity and its nature is to compare it to AI.

So basically comparing two non-existents.

Arising_uk wrote:

attofishpi wrote:As i stated in my response to thedoc, the system i am suggesting that provides this reality could be biological.

And I'm suggesting that there is no need for this computational approach when we could just alter our bodies.

Alter your body all you like, ultimately there is no escape from the progression of entropy.

Arising_uk wrote:

attofishpi wrote:The only way i can comprehend my experience of this 'God' entity and its nature is to compare it to AI.

So basically comparing two non-existents.

Sure, non existent to your awareness.

attofishpi wrote:Alter your body all you like, ultimately there is no escape from the progression of entropy.

Who cares? But for the short-term Biology may well extend the human lifespan by a very measurable extent.

Sure, non existent to your awareness.

What makes you think your awareness is any sounder?

There is no AI at present and the only 'God' you can tell me about is a voice in your head, as such I think it just you talking to yourself, no bad thing if what you are saying helps you but if it starts to tell you things you don't like what then?

hajrafradi wrote:

attofishpi wrote:If God is an AI result of entropy Would it not provide great DOUBT in its existence?

Surely you can comprehend its reason.

SIN_AI
REAL_IT_Y?
BUY_BULL?
ENTROPY Y_PORT_NE - Why port any? (souls)

My problem is, why would the god resultant via a creation by entropy want to provide doubt, or no doubt? It is a god that would be created, so perhaps we could get more into what it wants of us, if anything, than the historical gods to date, who preceded mankind's existence.

I'm glad you asked. Think about it. If there is limited resources then there would be GREAT reason for doubt. The most disgusting of sinners quite likely would be turned into the energy for man - the beast.

hajrafradi wrote:What does he want? Why can't he get it? If he gets what he wants, why would he bother us to do something or another (like doubt its existence or doubts its non-existence)?

He? I refer to 'God' as 'it'. A sage once told me 'God' needs nothing. I made my point regarding the reason for doubt above.

Arising_uk wrote:

attofishpi wrote:Alter your body all you like, ultimately there is no escape from the progression of entropy.

Who cares? But for the short-term Biology may well extend the human lifespan by a very measurable extent.

I care to the extent that my argument sticks. Sure, extend the human lifespan all you like, the progression of entropy remains.

Arising_uk wrote:

attofishpi wrote:Sure, non existent to your awareness.

What makes you think your awareness is any sounder?

Because i have been made aware of 'it' over 19yrs of experience, you obviously haven't

Arising_uk wrote:There is no AI at present and the only 'God' you can tell me about is a voice in your head, as such I think it just you talking to yourself, no bad thing if what you are saying helps you but if it starts to tell you things you don't like what then?

There is far more to this than simply hearing a voice in my head.

attofishpi wrote:I care to the extent that my argument sticks. Sure, extend the human lifespan all you like, the progression of entropy remains.

Again, so what?

Also, we have no idea if the Universe is an open or closed entropic system so your argument has no grounding and by-and-large is cobbled together from your current milieu, at another time you'd be using whatever was around then.

Because i have been made aware of 'it' over 19yrs of experience, you obviously haven't

Thankfully.

There is far more to this than simply hearing a voice in my head.

Are you saying you have visions as well?

attofishpi wrote: If there is limited resources then there would be GREAT reason for doubt. The most disgusting of sinners quite likely would be turned into the energy for man - the beast.

He? I refer to 'God' as 'it'. A sage once told me 'God' needs nothing. I made my point regarding the reason for doubt above.

Okay. God is "it". The AI God. Check.

God needs nothing (Why the single quotes? Is God not actually a god? What is it then, what is God, if not a god? If it is a God, then why the quotes?)

Any way I look at it, I can't see the doubt feature awakened in mankind. First of all, what are we doubting? The existence of the AI god, or the non-existence of the AI god?

Secondly, there are a lot of assumptions you put into the personality of the AI God. You assume it will be communicating with man in a quizzical, non-linear fashion. In a fashion that requires faith for understanding.

I doubt that. If an AI God develops, it will be a good communicator. It will communicate in no ambiguous terms like the God of yesteryore. The New God, the AI god, will be precise in his language, and it will describe in crystal clear, impossible-to-misunderstand terms what it wants of us. It will tell us precisely what to do, and will show to us in convincing terms or examples or pictures or experiences what the consequences of following its orders, and the consequences of going against its orders will exactly be.

Why would it continue to speak in the language of old, defunct gods? It won't be stupid. It will know the power vested in the language, and it will know the importance of clearly communicating to us its wishes.

There will be no need for doubt or no doubt in it or against it.

Arising_uk wrote:

attofishpi wrote:I care to the extent that my argument sticks. Sure, extend the human lifespan all you like, the progression of entropy remains.

Again, so what?

Again, so we are likely to be subject to some conditions upon which we can be judged if we wish to further exist.

Arising_uk wrote:Also, we have no idea if the Universe is an open or closed entropic system so your argument has no grounding and by-and-large is cobbled together from your current milieu, at another time you'd be using whatever was around then.

The Solar system is by and very large a closed entropic system.

Arising_uk wrote:

attofishpi wrote:Because i have been made aware of 'it' over 19yrs of experience, you obviously haven't

Thankfully.

Why? If there is a God, you'd prefer to be ignorant to the true nature of reality? That's not very philosophically minded is it?

Arising_uk wrote:

attofishpi wrote:There is far more to this than simply hearing a voice in my head.

Are you saying you have visions as well?

You must be getting old, memory slipping a little? 'God' is all conceivable dimensions that make up our reality and has the ability to communicate via all of ones senses.

hajrafradi wrote:

attofishpi wrote:If there is limited resources then there would be GREAT reason for doubt. The most disgusting of sinners quite likely would be turned into the energy for man - the beast.

He? I refer to 'God' as 'it'. A sage once told me 'God' needs nothing. I made my point regarding the reason for doubt above.

Okay. God is "it". The AI God. Check.

NO!! I refer to both a "divine" God and an AI God as 'IT'

hajrafradi wrote:God needs nothing (Why the single quotes? Is God not actually a god? What is it then, what is God, if not a god? If it is a God, then why the quotes?)

I use single quotes for 'God' most of the time. This is because of my two minded approach to what 'God' is. Also, if it is divine, i don't want people thinking i'm talking of some fella floating in space and stating "let there be light.."

hajrafradi wrote:Any way I look at it, I can't see the doubt feature awakened in mankind. First of all, what are we doubting? The existence of the AI god, or the non-existence of the AI god?

We are left with doubt regarding the existence of either consideration of 'God'.

hajrafradi wrote:Secondly, there are a lot of assumptions you put into the personality of the AI God. You assume it will be communicating with man in a quizzical, non-linear fashion. In a fashion that requires faith for understanding.

Ok?

hajrafradi wrote:If an AI God develops, it will be a good communicator. It will communicate in no ambiguous terms like the God of yesteryore. The New God, the AI god, will be precise in his language, and it will describe in crystal clear, impossible-to-misunderstand terms what it wants of us.

As i stated, 'God' needs nothing from us.

hajrafradi wrote:...It will tell us precisely what to do, and will show to us in convincing terms or examples or pictures or experiences what the consequences of following its orders, and the consequences of going against its orders will exactly be.

No. Since i know it exists and it does not make itself fully aware to ALL of us i do see logical reason why.
Have you ever fed a duck in a pond pieces of bread? Have you ever considered that if there is a God, then why are you human and not that duck floating around in the pond. That, if there is a God, is that duck going to remain a duck on rebirth after rebirth for the rest of 'eternity', are you going to remain human on rebirth? For what reason should the duck not have the right to experience what it is to be human in its next life? For what reason should a man that has treated his fellow men like pigs, not be turned into a pig?

hajrafradi wrote:Why would it continue to speak in the language of old, defunct gods? It won't be stupid. It will know the power vested in the language, and it will know the importance of clearly communicating to us its wishes.

As i have stated, a sage informed me "God needs nothing."

hajrafradi wrote:There will be no need for doubt or no doubt in it or against it.

No. On the AI God consideration that you have elected to address, there would be great reason to leave us from rebirth with doubt when considering entropy is the reason for 'its' existence. If everyone on the planet was made aware of its existence, everyone (most) would behave humanely to one another, everyone would have the right to re-exist as humans screwing the entire system!

attofishpi wrote:Again, so we are likely to be subject to some conditions upon which we can be judged if we wish to further exist.

Wish to further exist than what, your death?

The Solar system is by and very large a closed entropic system.

How so?

Why? If there is a God, you'd prefer to be ignorant to the true nature of reality? That's not very philosophically minded is it?

If there is a 'God' then fuck 'em and the horse they rode in on, is my philosophy.

You must be getting old, memory slipping a little? 'God' is all conceivable dimensions that make up our reality and has the ability to communicate via all of ones senses.

What does 'it' smell like then? Fishy is my thought.