Should countries outlaw the hijab, niqab and burka?

[Greatest I am]

Muslim women are beaten if they do not do as bid by Muslim men.

Exactly. So, you're going to punish women in Canada for what men do in Saudi Arabia. How does that make justice - or sense?

"First they came for the Jews, but I did nothing because I'm not a Jew. Then they came for the socialists, but I did nothing because I'm not a socialist. Then they came for the Catholics, but I did nothing because I'm not a Catholic. Finally, they came for me, but by then there was no one left to help me." – Pastor Father Niemoller (1946)”

Did you mean

First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me -

?

What's this got to do with it? Who is coming for the Jews? Nobody's telling Hassidim that they're not allowed to wear a hat or tallit. Nor did they [the nazis of 1939 Germany] ever come for the Catholics [they received major financing from the Vatican and Joe Kennedy], nor is anybody proposing to make rules about what Catholics wear, or Russian or Greek Orthodox or Mormons or Sikhs or Wall Street brokers. Basically, clothing laws only apply to women who cover their face or uncover their breasts.

You want to punish Muslim women for adhering to a custom they have no power to change. By forbidding women to wear traditional garb on the street, you're confining them to the very homes where they are oppressed - but it's okay, because it's happen behind closed doors, not - as you so tactfully put it, in your face. And you go away all smug and pleased: problem solved.
If you want to change the custom, change the circumstances. But that takes time and thought and education and integration. It can't be done with the stroke of an self-righteous pen.

You have everything ass backwards.

I would punish the men as they would be suffering the fines if they did not allow their women to dress to the societies standards.

Why are you trying to protect men who are abusing women?

Regards
DL

[vegetariantaxidermy]

Should countries outlaw the hijab niqab and burka

No because everyone should be free to dress as they choose since it is not impacting on anyone elses freedom. So it
is ironic that a nation who apparently believes in freedom and equality should then ban them. Also the Saudi Arabia
argument is right up there with the most ridiculous ever. For what happens else where has got absolutely nothing to
do with whether they should be banned over here. Now I see them all the time and I have not my freedom curtailed

When in Rome. If I went to Saudi Arabia or any other muslim country I would abide by its dress code. If you value 'freedom' so much you should object to the burka, or whatever you want to call those tents with the slits. How are they ever going to assimilate or enter the 21st century when their archaic customs are constantly pandered to?

[Greatest I am]

Should countries outlaw the hijab niqab and burka

No because everyone should be free to dress as they choose since it is not impacting on anyone elses freedom. So it
is ironic that a nation who apparently believes in freedom and equality should then ban them. Also the Saudi Arabia
argument is right up there with the most ridiculous ever. For what happens else where has got absolutely nothing to
do with whether they should be banned over here. Now I see them all the time and I have not my freedom curtailed

"No because everyone should be free to dress as they choose"

I agree but we are talking of women who have lost that right to Muslim men.

That lose of a right is what Muslim women should have returned to them by all governments of free countries.

"it is not impacting on anyone else's freedom."

As a free person, is your first duty to insure that all share the freedom you have to dress as you please without coercion and if there is coercion, is it not your duty to end that coercion by outlawing it?

Regards
DL

[Skip]

Wow, you really are an insincere, nauseating, smug, patronising, do-gooding, bleeding-heart wet sop aren't you?

At the very least!

[surreptitious57]

Should countries outlaw the hijab niqab and burka

No because everyone should be free to dress as they choose since it is not impacting on anyone elses freedom. So it
is ironic that a nation who apparently believes in freedom and equality should then ban them. Also the Saudi Arabia
argument is right up there with the most ridiculous ever. For what happens else where has got absolutely nothing to
do with whether they should be banned over here. Now I see them all the time and I have not my freedom curtailed

When in Rome. If I went to Saudi Arabia or any other muslim country I would abide by its dress code. If you value
freedom so much you should object to the burka or whatever you want to call those tents with the slits. How are
they ever going to assimilate or enter the 21st century when their archaic customs are constantly pandered to ?

What happens in Saudi Arabia has got nothing to do with what happens here though you seem to think it should
And I am not sure what threat to freedom there is by the wearing of some thing that you personally do not like
Shall we take this to its logical conclusion because if not then what point are you actually trying to make here
And I am rather surprised to learn that the wearing of clothes is an archaic custom that has to be pandered to

[Skip]

You have everything ass backwards.

I would punish the men as they would be suffering the fines if they did not allow their women to dress to the societies standards.

All right. How would this law read?
How do you set out in legal terms a dress code for societal standards?
Are you also going to outlaw saris? Caftans? Mu-mus? Qi paos? Ponchos?
How do you safeguard the freedom of people - all people, including Lapps and Mennonites - to dress as they please while preventing men - all men, including Jews and Mohawks - from forcing their wives and daughters to dress differently?
How do you go about determining whether any particular woman is dressing as she does by choice or coercion?
What degree of coercion is criminal?
How do you protect a woman from retribution after the fine has been paid?

Why are you trying to protect men who are abusing women?

I'm mostly trying to protect my freedom to wear a hat, or a parka or shorts or a flamenco shirt or any damn thing I please.
And yours too.

[wtf]

Of course not, any more than they should outlaw t-shirts and hoodies. Or require that gentlemen wear suits and hats like they did in the 1930's. If I want to wear a Burqa, who's to say I can't?

Now, there are some special cases where there might be sensible prohibitions. Can I cover my face on my driver's license photo? Can I cover my face when getting on an airplane? Entering a sports stadium? What about the tradition of fans of losing teams putting paper bags over their heads? Would you outlaw that?

[vegetariantaxidermy]

You have everything ass backwards.

I would punish the men as they would be suffering the fines if they did not allow their women to dress to the societies standards.

All right. How would this law read?
How do you set out in legal terms a dress code for societal standards?
Are you also going to outlaw saris? Caftans? Mu-mus? Qi paos? Ponchos?
How do you safeguard the freedom of people - all people, including Lapps and Mennonites - to dress as they please while preventing men - all men, including Jews and Mohawks - from forcing their wives and daughters to dress differently?
How do you go about determining whether any particular woman is dressing as she does by choice or coercion?
What degree of coercion is criminal?
How do you protect a woman from retribution after the fine has been paid?

Why are you trying to protect men who are abusing women?

I'm mostly trying to protect my freedom to wear a hat, or a parka or shorts or a flamenco shirt or any damn thing I please.
And yours too.

Come off it. Walk into a bank in a balaclava or full motorbike helmet and see how far you get. You yanks have a weird idea of what 'freedom' is, if any.

[surreptitious57]

How do you set out in legal terms a dress code for societal standards

Long as you are covered up then you should be free to wear anything you want
The standards of society is such a meaningless phrase in this particular context

[Gustav Bjornstrand]

Of course not. They must have special privileges, in hospitals, banks, and anywhere else they wish to go. We MUST tolerate them! After all, they allow us to wander around Saudi Arabia in summery dresses and bikinis, our hair flowing freely. They wouldn't flog, stone, or behead us for that, because they are very tolerant people, to be petted and coddled and treated like the fragile and sensitive little dollies that they are.

I know we have had some run-ins, but I would like to join your fan club. Where do I sign up?

[surreptitious57]

Walk into a bank in a balaclava or full motorbike helmet and see how far you get

You have to remove any head wear when required to do so in some public spaces
However apart from this exception you can wear what ever you want where ever

[Skip]

I still haven't seen where anyone stands on the standard legal garb for other religions, or men of any religion.
Nor have I seen provisions for enforcement.

[Greatest I am]

You have everything ass backwards.

I would punish the men as they would be suffering the fines if they did not allow their women to dress to the societies standards.

All right. How would this law read?
How do you set out in legal terms a dress code for societal standards?
Are you also going to outlaw saris? Caftans? Mu-mus? Qi paos? Ponchos?
How do you safeguard the freedom of people - all people, including Lapps and Mennonites - to dress as they please while preventing men - all men, including Jews and Mohawks - from forcing their wives and daughters to dress differently?
How do you go about determining whether any particular woman is dressing as she does by choice or coercion?
What degree of coercion is criminal?
How do you protect a woman from retribution after the fine has been paid?

Why are you trying to protect men who are abusing women?

I'm mostly trying to protect my freedom to wear a hat, or a parka or shorts or a flamenco shirt or any damn thing I please.
And yours too.

So you like the idea of wearing what you please.

That is what I want for Muslim women who are presently being forced to wear what they do not want to wear.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

Of course not, any more than they should outlaw t-shirts and hoodies. Or require that gentlemen wear suits and hats like they did in the 1930's. If I want to wear a Burqa, who's to say I can't?

Now, there are some special cases where there might be sensible prohibitions. Can I cover my face on my driver's license photo? Can I cover my face when getting on an airplane? Entering a sports stadium? What about the tradition of fans of losing teams putting paper bags over their heads? Would you outlaw that?

You do not seem to get that women are being forced to wear the clothing in question.

If a bag was being forced upon you then yes, I would outlaw the practice.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

I still haven't seen where anyone stands on the standard legal garb for other religions, or men of any religion.
Nor have I seen provisions for enforcement.

About 5,000 honor killings a years not enforcement enough for you?

How about this enforcement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Mecc ... chool_fire

Regards
DL