Philosophy Now Forum

Given his reputation, I think it's interesting that Nietzsche wasn't uniformly opposed to belief in gods. He seemed to think that illusions are a necessary part of our existence. And the illusory gods of ancient Greece, being human-like, served to invigorate the lives of individuals and enhance the flourishing of culture. Whereas the Christian God was remote and stifling, handcuffing individuals and promoting a slave culture. Truly iconoclastic ideas.

MusicalSpirit wrote:Given his reputation, I think it's interesting that Nietzsche wasn't uniformly opposed to belief in gods. He seemed to think that illusions are a necessary part of our existence. And the illusory gods of ancient Greece, being human-like, served to invigorate the lives of individuals and enhance the flourishing of culture. Whereas the Christian God was remote and stifling, handcuffing individuals and promoting a slave culture. Truly iconoclastic ideas.

Read Peter Wessel Zapffe, and you'll understand that illusions are indeed a necessary part of existence.

MusicalSpirit wrote:Given his reputation, I think it's interesting that Nietzsche wasn't uniformly opposed to belief in gods. He seemed to think that illusions are a necessary part of our existence. And the illusory gods of ancient Greece, being human-like, served to invigorate the lives of individuals and enhance the flourishing of culture. Whereas the Christian God was remote and stifling, handcuffing individuals and promoting a slave culture. Truly iconoclastic ideas.

Yes, this was a point of his that attracted those like Hitler. The point he seemed to be making was that considering there is no actual justification for absolute morals, we need some means to at least create them for the sake of maintaining a civil moral. For those like Hitler, this was interpreted as rationally recognizing the power of unifying people through a religion as he forcefully did by creating such by emphasizing the glory of the German national through his Aryan race myth.

It really IS true that such nationalism is fostered powerfully when one believes in a heritage that connects people with a favor by some God. I believe that while Hitler may have been so adamantly against the Jew, in reality it is what he admired about their capacity to stick together which made him admire the power of this. I'd imagine he may actually have not been as 'hateful' in principle against the Jew but only felt them as equally believing just what he felt needed to be embraced and so modeled his creation on his interpretation of them. He only lacked a real religion that made Germans more completely and historically related. So he created it just as Nietzsche suggested doing so for practical purposes of utility.

Scott Mayers wrote: For those like Hitler, this was interpreted as rationally recognizing the power of unifying people through a religion as he forcefully did by creating such by emphasizing the glory of the German national through his Aryan race myth.

...an idea totally rejected by Nietzsche. In fact it would have been total anathema. Had he been a contemporary of Hitler's rise to power he would have fulminated against the facists and for much the same reason against communists not unlike Voltaire in his diatribes against the Church and the powers that be in the 18th century.

Scott Mayers wrote:He only lacked a real religion that made Germans more completely and historically related. So he created it just as Nietzsche suggested doing so for practical purposes of utility.

What is ironic here is that Nietzsche feared German unity as eventually causing a catastrophe. This clearly came to be but without knowing how it would actually happen for which Germany alone was definitely not responsible. Also what is generally not realized about N's views on Germans and Jews is that he preferred and admired the latter much more than the former.

Hitler understood, among other more educated Nazis that Nietzsche's unedited writings has nothing to offer the regime and couldn't depend on N's philosophy to justify it except through mutilation as reedited by N's sister seeking to curry favor with Hitler. Not certain but I think they met only once.

Scott Mayers wrote: For those like Hitler, this was interpreted as rationally recognizing the power of unifying people through a religion as he forcefully did by creating such by emphasizing the glory of the German national through his Aryan race myth.

...an idea totally rejected by Nietzsche. In fact it would have been total anathema. Had he been a contemporary of Hitler's rise to power he would have fulminated against the facists and for much the same reason against communists not unlike Voltaire in his diatribes against the Church and the powers that be in the 18th century.

Scott Mayers wrote:He only lacked a real religion that made Germans more completely and historically related. So he created it just as Nietzsche suggested doing so for practical purposes of utility.

What is ironic here is that Nietzsche feared German unity as eventually causing a catastrophe. This clearly came to be but without knowing how it would actually happen for which Germany alone was definitely not responsible. Also what is generally not realized about N's views on Germans and Jews is that he preferred and admired the latter much more than the former which doesn't imply that they were wholly exempt of his criticisms.

Hitler understood, among other more educated Nazis that Nietzsche's unedited writings has nothing to offer the regime and couldn't depend on N's philosophy to justify it except through mutilation as reedited by N's sister seeking to curry favor with Hitler. Not certain but I think they met only once.

Dalek Prime wrote:

Scott Mayers wrote:

Dalek Prime wrote:So Hex, why do you feel competent to trash philosophers you've never even read? You have no idea the knowledge you are missing out on. And no offence, but it may improve your written skills.

I don't think he is intentionally 'trashing' for no reason. This is why I re-introduced it in a modern context. In order to understand some philosophers requires such intense background effort to follow contextually. So you need to speak in modern terms unless you are desiring to critique the nature of literature here and not the actual philosophy of Nihilism.

Okay, but he still says he reads zero philosophy, and that can't be a good thing. I personally hate when people trash something without reading it. Unless it's 'Mein Kampf'. Then feel free to lol.

It's still a useful source of information about how Hitler thought. For example, many think him an atheist, but he invokes god on several occasions in Mein Kampf.

True enough. Considering how invested the Nazis were into the occult, it would surprise.me if Hitler didn't invoke a god of some sort.

Dalek Prime wrote:True enough. Considering how invested the Nazis were into the occult, it would surprise.me if Hitler didn't invoke a god of some sort.

You've been watching too much Raiders of the Lost Ark and HellBoy.

Hitler was a Christian, and took as his inspiration Martin Luther, the architect of the Protestant Revolution, for his Anti-semitism.

Hobbes' Choice wrote:As you are completely ignorant of philosophy you are not in a position to judge if it is either out of date or nonsense. Until you learn to read you will remain stupid.

I've read plenty of works of various philosophyers ..ancient as new, but neither has any modern relevance in modern times, you should know that ..but you don't, because you simply are not bright enough.

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

Dalek Prime wrote:True enough. Considering how invested the Nazis were into the occult, it would surprise.me if Hitler didn't invoke a god of some sort.

You've been watching too much Raiders of the Lost Ark and HellBoy.

Hitler was a Christian, and took as his inspiration Martin Luther, the architect of the Protestant Revolution, for his Anti-semitism.

I don't get you sometimes, Hobbes. Even when I'm agreeing with you, you pull out insults and make my agreement sound like disagreement. It's tiring.

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

Dalek Prime wrote:True enough. Considering how invested the Nazis were into the occult, it would surprise.me if Hitler didn't invoke a god of some sort.

You've been watching too much Raiders of the Lost Ark and HellBoy.

Hitler was a Christian, and took as his inspiration Martin Luther, the architect of the Protestant Revolution, for his Anti-semitism.

There was much more to that story than Luther's antisemitism.

Dalek Prime wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

Dalek Prime wrote:True enough. Considering how invested the Nazis were into the occult, it would surprise.me if Hitler didn't invoke a god of some sort.

You've been watching too much Raiders of the Lost Ark and HellBoy.

Hitler was a Christian, and took as his inspiration Martin Luther, the architect of the Protestant Revolution, for his Anti-semitism.

I don't get you sometimes, Hobbes. Even when I'm agreeing with you, you pull out insults and make my agreement sound like disagreement. It's tiring.

I jus think the 'occult' thing is not particularly relevent.

I mentioned it in passing, not weighting it heavily.

I don't think Hitler was on any side of religion or non-religion as he seemed only to be concerned about fostering a Nationalism that empowered his idea. He interpreted Nietzshche's "will to power" as a necessary means to utilize any religion, including any made up ones, in order to foster the emotional drives to make his people ACT. Nationalism is just the collective set of beliefs that consolidate some group for this action. Since he interpreted everyone as competing using their own Nationality anyways, to him, it may be only arbitrary which Nationality is actually 'true' to some standard of nature. Instead, he believed that unless one is willing to stand strong for oneself as a group, just as he saw existed with the Jews, it is only those who lack any Nationality who will lose to those who have. Thus, he opts for preference to German's Nationality by default of ruling there only.

The Jewish community threatened him because they also act with strong Nationality and exclusivity (according to his or other's perception) in equal but opposing force. Christians lacked the 'genetic' bias and so was not as threatening because they were always open to recruit regardless of genetic/cultural/ethnic exclusion.

Scott Mayers wrote:I don't think Hitler was on any side of religion or non-religion as he seemed only to be concerned about fostering a Nationalism that empowered his idea. He interpreted Nietzshche's "will to power" as a necessary means to utilize any religion, including any made up ones, in order to foster the emotional drives to make his people ACT. Nationalism is just the collective set of beliefs that consolidate some group for this action. Since he interpreted everyone as competing using their own Nationality anyways, to him, it may be only arbitrary which Nationality is actually 'true' to some standard of nature. Instead, he believed that unless one is willing to stand strong for oneself as a group, just as he saw existed with the Jews, it is only those who lack any Nationality who will lose to those who have. Thus, he opts for preference to German's Nationality by default of ruling there only.

The Jewish community threatened him because they also act with strong Nationality and exclusivity (according to his or other's perception) in equal but opposing force. Christians lacked the 'genetic' bias and so was not as threatening because they were always open to recruit regardless of genetic/cultural/ethnic exclusion.

Are you trying to apologise for Hitler, or religion?

"I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.." , Mein Kampf, Hitler

My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before in the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice.... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.... When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom to-day this poor people is plundered and exploited.
-Adolf Hitler, in his speech in Munich on 12 April 1922

[Note, "brood of vipers" appears in Matt. 3:7 & 12:34. John 2:15 depicts Jesus driving out the money changers (adders) from the temple. The word "adders" also appears in Psalms 140:3]


Just as the Jew could once incite the mob of Jerusalem against Christ, so today he must succeed in inciting folk who have been duped into madness to attack those who, God's truth! seek to deal with this people in utter honesty and sincerity.
-Adolf Hitler, in Munich, 28 July 1922


In the Bible we find the text, 'That which is neither hot nor cold will I spew out of my mouth.' This utterance of the great Nazarene has kept its profound validity until the present day.
-Adolf Hitler, speech in Munich, 10 April 1923

We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.
-Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Berlin on 24 Oct. 1933


There are thousands of such quotes. It is harder to find a passage where Hitler is NOT invoking God or Christianity, than it is to find one where he mentions them