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Re: Marriage For Everyone!
Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:19 am
by Impenitent
artisticsolution wrote:marjoram_blues wrote:
'Hyperbole': deliberate exaggeration.
I don't think that is what Imp is about, is it?
There I go being all pie in the sky again! I still can't believe any rational person would say what Imp did and mean it literally.
LOL That's the true insanity of it...you know they can't possibly mean it...I mean...come on...it would take a idiot....but still...they seem to have convince themselves of the validity of their reasoning...as I truly believe that would be the basis for them casting a no vote! "We must keep the african american's from having to bake confederate flag cakes!"
wtf?!
Re: Marriage For Everyone!
Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:26 am
by artisticsolution
And what does that have to do with marriage for everyone?
Re: Marriage For Everyone!
Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:30 am
by Impenitent
artisticsolution wrote:
And what does that have to do with marriage for everyone?
forcing workers in private businesses' to produce things that run counter to their religious beliefs is the epitome of freedom and equality
don't you dare hold a belief that runs counter to the new state religion
-Imp
Re: Marriage For Everyone!
Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 3:46 am
by Skip
Sooo - the state should curtail the freedom of normal, law-abiding people to live normal, law-abiding lives, in order to protect bigots from the possibility of having to choose between public expressions of their bigotry and a license to operate a business among normal, law-abiding people?
Nobody's barred from going to their church, holding their services, wearing their ceremonial garb, saying their prayers, singing their songs, carrying on their rituals, sacraments and holidays. Nobody's prohibited from declaring their faith or publishing their doctrine; from preaching, setting up shrines on their property or avoiding the company of non-religious people in their private lives. Bigots have the same right to public and commercial services as the those whom they are bigoted against: nobody's allowed to refuse to sell or cater to them. If the Black baker has to make a confederate cake, the Kluxer also has to make a Martin Luther King Jr. cake. The only religious freedom that's threatened is the one where they discriminate against a group that's not allowed to discriminate against them.
Um... How come I can't see the basis of their outrage?
Re: Marriage For Everyone!
Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 4:06 am
by Melchior
Skip wrote:Sooo - the state should curtail the freedom of normal, law-abiding people to live normal, law-abiding lives, in order to protect bigots from the possibility of having to choose between public expressions of their bigotry and a license to operate a business among normal, law-abiding people?
Nobody's barred from going to their church, holding their services, wearing their ceremonial garb, saying their prayers, singing their songs, carrying on their rituals, sacraments and holidays. Nobody's prohibited from declaring their faith or publishing their doctrine; from preaching, setting up shrines on their property or avoiding the company of non-religious people in their private lives. Bigots have the same right to public and commercial services as the those whom they are bigoted against: nobody's allowed to refuse to sell or cater to them. If the Black baker has to make a confederate cake, the Kluxer also has to make a Martin Luther King Jr. cake. The only religious freedom that's threatened is the one where they discriminate against a group that's not allowed to discriminate against them.
Um... How come I can't see the basis of their outrage?
You're demented. The essence of freedom is the right to do business with whom you choose. The state has no business interfering. What if I refuse to offer wedding photography services to
everybody? Can
everybody sue me? Why not? Do you now see the absurdity of it all?
Re: Marriage For Everyone!
Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 5:56 am
by artisticsolution
Impenitent wrote:
forcing workers in private businesses' to produce things that run counter to their religious beliefs is the epitome of freedom and equality
don't you dare hold a belief that runs counter to the new state religion
-Imp
Melchior wrote:
You're demented. The essence of freedom is the right to do business with whom you choose. The state has no business interfering. What if I refuse to offer wedding photography services to everybody? Can everybody sue me? Why not? Do you now see the absurdity of it all?
And what does marriage for everyone have to do with any of this.
Don't you see the absurdity of your even thinking that same sex marriage has anything at all to do with who can do business with whom? Have you lost your minds?
One has absolutely nothing to do with the other!
It is exactly the same argument when 'blacks' could not go to 'white' schools. It is the same ol bullshit...."the state has no right...blah blah blah" The fact of the matter is, it's frigging people like you 2 (imp and melchior) that makes it so the state has to butt in in the first place! You want your freedom then friggin stop taking the freedom away from the people! Play fair (equal rights for all) so that the state doesn't have to intervene on petty bullshit such as whether or not a person has the right to sit at the front of the bus, or the right to marry, etc.
Your mean spirited shit loses every time eventually. So stop the insane bigotry and you won't have to worry about the state anymore!
I have zero respect for republicans. You are so embarrassingly foolish. You are the butt of jokes...world round.
There's a new sheriff in town and she's called 'equality'. Deal with it.
Re: Marriage For Everyone!
Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:56 pm
by Impenitent
artisticsolution wrote:Impenitent wrote:
forcing workers in private businesses' to produce things that run counter to their religious beliefs is the epitome of freedom and equality
don't you dare hold a belief that runs counter to the new state religion
-Imp
Melchior wrote:
You're demented. The essence of freedom is the right to do business with whom you choose. The state has no business interfering. What if I refuse to offer wedding photography services to everybody? Can everybody sue me? Why not? Do you now see the absurdity of it all?
And what does marriage for everyone have to do with any of this.
Don't you see the absurdity of your even thinking that same sex marriage has anything at all to do with who can do business with whom? Have you lost your minds?
One has absolutely nothing to do with the other!
It is exactly the same argument when 'blacks' could not go to 'white' schools. It is the same ol bullshit...."the state has no right...blah blah blah" The fact of the matter is, it's frigging people like you 2 (imp and melchior) that makes it so the state has to butt in in the first place! You want your freedom then friggin stop taking the freedom away from the people! Play fair (equal rights for all) so that the state doesn't have to intervene on petty bullshit such as whether or not a person has the right to sit at the front of the bus, or the right to marry, etc.
Your mean spirited shit loses every time eventually. So stop the insane bigotry and you won't have to worry about the state anymore!
I have zero respect for republicans. You are so embarrassingly foolish. You are the butt of jokes...world round.
There's a new sheriff in town and she's called 'equality'. Deal with it.
"One has absolutely nothing to do with the other! "
I linked to the lawsuits
thank you for the name calling
rejoice in your new state forced religion
equality?
have you ever read Harrison Bergeron?
https://archive.org/stream/HarrisonBerg ... n_djvu.txt
utopia
-Imp
Re: Marriage For Everyone!
Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 3:19 pm
by Skip
Melchior wrote:
You're demented. The essence of freedom is the right to do business with whom you choose. The state has no business interfering.
The state has all kinds of rights to interfere. They can send the police when your premises are robbed, or the fire department if your store is burning. They clear the street out front of snow and garbage and illegally parked cars. They issue licenses, print money, regulate commerce, shipping and transport, make roads and harbours, carry on postal services and safety inspections and enforce all kinds of laws - the ones that protect you
and the ones that protect other people, whether you like them or not.
What if I refuse to offer wedding photography services to everybody?
If you set up as a wedding photographer, that won't be much of a living. If you advertise yourself as a clothier, nobody will ask you to photograph their wedding. Problem solved.
Can everybody sue me?
If you're a fraud, potentially, yes. If you're lucky it'll be a single class action, rather than an individual case every three months for the rest of life.
Do you now see the absurdity of it all?
Clearly.
Just as clearly, there is some confusion about equality under the law, freedom and dystopia. You use a story about making people the same to illustrate that people who are not the same as you shouldn't be allowed the same rights as you have.
Your freedom to carry on your religion and life-style, however demented, is not curtailed by your neighbour's freedom to do the same. But if the state has a right to forbid one, it potentially has the right to forbid a second, a third... and eventually the privileged one: yours. Extending freedom to someone else is extending freedom overall, even if you no longer have a monopoly.
I'm so frickin tired of arguments against freedom in the name of freedom!
Re: Marriage For Everyone!
Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 8:39 pm
by artisticsolution
Skip wrote:
I'm so frickin tired of arguments against freedom in the name of freedom!
I hear ya! It's not worth it....but I am beginning to think that imp is just pulling our chain. I simply refuse to believe someone could actually believe that bergeron story is something that is possible if equality is ever a reality. I just can't wrap my head around the argument. I mean. ..I know I should be used to the insanity by now but it still freaks me the hell out!
"Beware...we will enter the twilight zone if we try to do the right thing! No one will be special if we are all treated with respect! We will all be forced to bake cakes with confederate flags....and worst of all we'll be black and be forced to have afros! Oh the horror...the horror! "
Re: Marriage For Everyone!
Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 8:50 pm
by SpheresOfBalance
Melchior wrote:artisticsolution wrote:Melchior wrote:
It's not a right, and even if it were, they already had it.
Oh right...I forgot...you jackasses and your 'personal responsibility' bullshit.
Of course. ..they could have uprooted their families and moved to a state that allowed same sex marriage , right?
It because of mean people like you this was even an issue in the first place. You should be ashamed.
No, they can marry someone of the
opposite sex. That what
marriage is. This ruling is beyond ludicrous.
Only because you're homophobic!
Re: Marriage For Everyone!
Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 8:55 pm
by SpheresOfBalance
Impenitent wrote:artisticsolution wrote:
And what does that have to do with marriage for everyone?
forcing workers in private businesses' to produce things that run counter to their religious beliefs is the epitome of freedom and equality
don't you dare hold a belief that runs counter to the new state religion
-Imp
No it's not! To force anyone to do anything is not freedom.
Re: Marriage For Everyone!
Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 9:00 pm
by SpheresOfBalance
Skip wrote:Sooo - the state should curtail the freedom of normal, law-abiding people to live normal, law-abiding lives, in order to protect bigots from the possibility of having to choose between public expressions of their bigotry and a license to operate a business among normal, law-abiding people?
Nobody's barred from going to their church, holding their services, wearing their ceremonial garb, saying their prayers, singing their songs, carrying on their rituals, sacraments and holidays. Nobody's prohibited from declaring their faith or publishing their doctrine; from preaching, setting up shrines on their property or avoiding the company of non-religious people in their private lives. Bigots have the same right to public and commercial services as the those whom they are bigoted against: nobody's allowed to refuse to sell or cater to them. If the Black baker has to make a confederate cake, the Kluxer also has to make a Martin Luther King Jr. cake. The only religious freedom that's threatened is the one where they discriminate against a group that's not allowed to discriminate against them.
Um... How come I can't see the basis of their outrage?
Or the baker has the freedom to not bake that kind of cake, and his customers have the freedom to go elsewhere to buy their cakes, thus reducing his profits. In such a cake case, freedom has a price, as long as one is willing to pay it, that's freedom.
Re: Marriage For Everyone!
Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 9:02 pm
by SpheresOfBalance
Melchior wrote:Skip wrote:Sooo - the state should curtail the freedom of normal, law-abiding people to live normal, law-abiding lives, in order to protect bigots from the possibility of having to choose between public expressions of their bigotry and a license to operate a business among normal, law-abiding people?
Nobody's barred from going to their church, holding their services, wearing their ceremonial garb, saying their prayers, singing their songs, carrying on their rituals, sacraments and holidays. Nobody's prohibited from declaring their faith or publishing their doctrine; from preaching, setting up shrines on their property or avoiding the company of non-religious people in their private lives. Bigots have the same right to public and commercial services as the those whom they are bigoted against: nobody's allowed to refuse to sell or cater to them. If the Black baker has to make a confederate cake, the Kluxer also has to make a Martin Luther King Jr. cake. The only religious freedom that's threatened is the one where they discriminate against a group that's not allowed to discriminate against them.
Um... How come I can't see the basis of their outrage?
You're demented. The essence of freedom is the right to do business with whom you choose. The state has no business interfering. What if I refuse to offer wedding photography services to
everybody? Can
everybody sue me? Why not?
Oh they can try and sue you but they'll never win, because you won't have any money to defend yourself, or pay them damages. 
Do you now see the absurdity of it all?
Re: Marriage For Everyone!
Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 9:08 pm
by SpheresOfBalance
Skip wrote:I'm so frickin tired of arguments against freedom in the name of freedom!
Yeah, that's a good one!
Re: Marriage For Everyone!
Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 9:43 pm
by artisticsolution
SpheresOfBalance wrote:Melchior wrote:
You're demented. The essence of freedom is the right to do business with whom you choose. The state has no business interfering. What if I refuse to offer wedding photography services to
everybody? Can
everybody sue me? Why not?
Oh they can try and sue you but they'll never win, because you won't have any money to defend yourself, or pay them damages.
Do you now see the absurdity of it all?
Hi spheres, I think you are correct about freedom being difficult to obtain, as I think one has to be able to discern and prioritize what is important from what is lower on the list of importance.
Equality is more important than money. Equality is what makes business florish in the first place. Let THE Bigot baker go out of business. Make way for the kind bakers.