Philosophy Now Forum

HexHammer wrote:Are you trying to be funny? Do scientists who preform case studies just go meet some mental cases for a few min, and walk away again. Then they magically know everything about a mental illness?

People with Asperger have a condition, not a mental illness. They're different in a variety of ways and the same as you and me in others. They've got challenges, and many have special advantages as well.

But it's important not to treat Asperger's like a sickness, because it's not that.

I think you have a point here. Every personality trait seems to be a 'syndrome' these days. If it's not a 'syndrome' then it's some kind of food 'intolerance'. Much of it is attention-seeking. And don't even get me started on the mothers drugging their children up on Ritalin just because they are boys being boys.

Immanuel Can wrote:

HexHammer wrote:Are you trying to be funny? Do scientists who preform case studies just go meet some mental cases for a few min, and walk away again. Then they magically know everything about a mental illness?

People with Asperger have a condition, not a mental illness. They're different in a variety of ways and the same as you and me in others. They've got challenges, and many have special advantages as well.

But it's important not to treat Asperger's like a sickness, because it's not that.

That's very far from the point I made.

Impenitent wrote:just remember, if you have met one person with autism, you have met one person with autism.

-Imp

I take this to mean: having met one person with a given condition doesn't mean you all of a sudden have a handle on the condition itself, or all the people who have it; you understand a very little more than before you met that one person and shouldn't generalize beyond that point.

As for this a person with Asperger's saying "I am special. I am an aspie." There is a very good chance he's simply repeating something he's been told, verbatim, without interpreting or imagining how it comes across to the hearer. The boy I know has explained to me that " other kids avoid me because they're not sure how to talk to me" and "Sometimes people tease to show they like you." - in the exact same words I've heard his grandmother use when explaining it to him.

If you want to see an excellent portrayal of an adult with Asperger's, catch Christian Clemenson in Boston Legal; he won an Emmy for the role of Jerry Espenson. Great show, too.

Skip wrote:

Impenitent wrote:just remember, if you have met one person with autism, you have met one person with autism.

-Imp

I take this to mean: having met one person with a given condition doesn't mean you all of a sudden have a handle on the condition itself, or all the people who have it; you understand a very little more than before you met that one person and shouldn't generalize beyond that point.

Well put! My compliments.

HexHammer wrote:That's very far from the point I made.

Is it? Did you not write this message...

Are you trying to be funny? Do scientists who preform case studies just go meet some mental cases for a few min, and walk away again. Then they magically know everything about a mental illness?

Does this not call Autism (and presumably Asperger's, as it is on the continuum), a "mental illness"? Or were you only trying to draw some kind of ambiguous and rather badly explained analogy between Asperger's and "mental illness" cases?

In that case, would you not be better to leave "mental illness" out of any discussion of the syndrome?

I prefer that you say I'm twisted, calling me sick makes it sound like there's a cure.

Immanuel Can wrote:

HexHammer wrote:That's very far from the point I made.

Is it? Did you not write this message...

Are you trying to be funny? Do scientists who preform case studies just go meet some mental cases for a few min, and walk away again. Then they magically know everything about a mental illness?

Does this not call Autism (and presumably Asperger's, as it is on the continuum), a "mental illness"? Or were you only trying to draw some kind of ambiguous and rather badly explained analogy between Asperger's and "mental illness" cases?

In that case, would you not be better to leave "mental illness" out of any discussion of the syndrome?

It may not be labeled an "illness" per se, but many aspects of autism can be considered an illness, and it's irrelevant for the point I was making.

Aspergers are usually extremely selfish, which can see as an illness which will greatly hinder them in social relations. Also they will not comprehend rules of social interaction and do and say weird things ..so ..yearh..

HexHammer wrote:

David Handeye wrote:yes, I haven't studied them, I didn't know of their existence, I never met any before, I'm just curious, I am asking you.

For how long?

For how long WHAT?

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:I think you have a point here. Every personality trait seems to be a 'syndrome' these days. If it's not a 'syndrome' then it's some kind of food 'intolerance'. Much of it is attention-seeking. And don't even get me started on the mothers drugging their children up on Ritalin just because they are boys being boys.

Ciao darling, yes you got it, "attention-seeking", and I agree with anything that you have written. I have noticed that they are full of tics, manias, fixations, they use to tell and write long texts about their "state", and I find this very few "autistic". Some write to love solitude and to not tolerate human relationships, but they ARE just having a sort of "relationship" and contact with others writing so much of themselves to other people.. truly I find them very self-centered, maybe AS is a real kind of disturb of personality, but I see also a lot of hypocrisy beyond and inside them, it seems to me they're continuously looping around their will of having attention, but hypocritically: first they say let us alone, and then they say listen to our problems. Mmh..
I agree that this could be a sort of disease, but not of the autistic spectrum.
(just my opinion)

David Handeye wrote:

HexHammer wrote:

David Handeye wrote:yes, I haven't studied them, I didn't know of their existence, I never met any before, I'm just curious, I am asking you.

For how long?

For how long WHAT?

Then "for how long" is irrelevant.

Good day to you sir.

HexHammer wrote:Aspergers are usually extremely selfish, which can see as an illness which will greatly hinder them in social relations. Also they will not comprehend rules of social interaction and do and say weird things ..so ..yearh..

Wow. May I make a suggestion? Have you considered the possibility that their social discomforts are not motivated by their being "extremely selfish" but by genuine difficulties in reading social cues, and that they are not choosing not to "comprehend rules of social interaction"? I might also suggest that even if they "do and say" what you consider "weird things," that's not a good reason for pathologizing their challenges as "mental illness."

Seriously, if you dismiss people who struggle with Asperger's Syndrome, you will miss some wonderful opportunities to know some great (albeit not ordinary) people. And that would be your loss.

However, if you don't think so, maybe it's best you just settle for being tolerant.

Immanuel Can wrote:

HexHammer wrote:Aspergers are usually extremely selfish, which can see as an illness which will greatly hinder them in social relations. Also they will not comprehend rules of social interaction and do and say weird things ..so ..yearh..

Wow. May I make a suggestion? Have you considered the possibility that their social discomforts are not motivated by their being "extremely selfish" but by genuine difficulties in reading social cues, and that they are not choosing not to "comprehend rules of social interaction"? I might also suggest that even if they "do and say" what you consider "weird things," that's not a good reason for pathologizing their challenges as "mental illness."

Seriously, if you dismiss people who struggle with Asperger's Syndrome, you will miss some wonderful opportunities to know some great (albeit not ordinary) people. And that would be your loss.

However, if you don't think so, maybe it's best you just settle for being tolerant.

I never said that, get a grip.
When have I said I dismiss aspergers?

If one is mental ill, it is you.