For the discussion of all things philosophical.
https://canzookia.com/
On the other hand, only an idiot would dismiss John on the isle of Patmos or Bob the Baptist from Cincinnati.vegetariantaxidermy wrote:It's a fashion thing. Messiahs were all over the place in those days. They were the 'rock stars' of the day. Certain people feel the need to follow someone else around, salivating over their every word. The whole jebus story is beyond silly, and only an idiot would believe it.
Your argument is contradictory. You claim messiahs were common place, yet say the "whole of the Jebus story is silly, and not believable." If messiahs were common, how is a story about one unbelievable?vegetariantaxidermy wrote:It's a fashion thing. Messiahs were all over the place in those days. They were the 'rock stars' of the day. Certain people feel the need to follow someone else around, salivating over their every word. The whole jebus story is beyond silly, and only an idiot would believe it.
I was being ironic. Perhaps I should have put irony marks around 'messiah'. I didn't feel that was needed though. By unbelievable I mean the whole god rape-sex, virgin birth, resurrection guff. As a matter of fact I don't even believe he was a real, historical figure. He might have been a composite of various story characters from that time and earlier.GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:Your argument is contradictory. You claim messiahs were common place, yet say the "whole of the Jebus story is silly, and not believable." If messiahs were common, how is a story about one unbelievable?vegetariantaxidermy wrote:It's a fashion thing. Messiahs were all over the place in those days. They were the 'rock stars' of the day. Certain people feel the need to follow someone else around, salivating over their every word. The whole jebus story is beyond silly, and only an idiot would believe it.
Yes, this is true. But often people use knowledge and technology to destroy hospitals.HexHammer wrote:Why would he send him once more? He already enlightened us, repeating the same words won't do much.
Try look at our world, we already got hospitals, we have the knowledge, we have the technology, just need to implement it.
well, to say the truth, Palestine is being in need of help since the dawn of time. Also nowadays. Maybe even more, nowadays.ReliStuPhD wrote:If that follows, it would also follow that First-century Palestine was when humans were most in need of help. It's almost like saying "Why does the subway come at 2:12? You would think it would come when it's most needed." See the mistake there?David Handeye wrote:Being God omniscient, He should have known the time when his sons and daughters were more in need of help
No, that's not my point. Here, you're arguing from a human understanding of when Palestine needs help, but your initial question dealt with God's understanding. In effect, your original question answered itself. If God is, in fact, omniscient, then the reason God sent Jesus to first-century Palestine was because that's when Jesus was needed most. Whether we think that was the right time is irrelevant, since we can't claim omniscience. God is working with a full view of things. For all we know, God is aware of a possible future where humans drove one another to extinction if Jesus had not come when he did. As for why the subway comes at 2:12 instead of 2:15, it's quite likely that those with access to the relevant information have determined 2:12 is the better time for a whole host of non-arbitrary reasons, your limited knowledge notwithstanding.David Handeye wrote:well, to say the truth, Palestine is being in need of help since the dawn of time. Also nowadays. Maybe even more, nowadays.ReliStuPhD wrote:If that follows, it would also follow that First-century Palestine was when humans were most in need of help. It's almost like saying "Why does the subway come at 2:12? You would think it would come when it's most needed." See the mistake there?David Handeye wrote:Being God omniscient, He should have known the time when his sons and daughters were more in need of help
I think, really, subway always comes at 2:12, doesn't matter whoever in need, or whoever in time. If you're in time, you jump on, else you wait for the next. While Jesus was sent just for our needs, for our salvation.
I see, thank you.ReliStuPhD wrote:No, that's not my point. Here, you're arguing from a human understanding of when Palestine needs help, but your initial question dealt with God's understanding. In effect, your original question answered itself. If God is, in fact, omniscient, then the reason God sent Jesus to first-century Palestine was because that's when Jesus was needed most. Whether we think that was the right time is irrelevant, since we can't claim omniscience. God is working with a full view of things. For all we know, God is aware of a possible future where humans drove one another to extinction if Jesus had not come when he did. As for why the subway comes at 2:12 instead of 2:15, it's quite likely that those with access to the relevant information have determined 2:12 is the better time for a whole host of non-arbitrary reasons, your limited knowledge notwithstanding.
All that to say, it borders on nonsense for someone with a limited view of a situation to question the decision of someone with a full view of the situation why they made the choice they did
One would assume that God, being who God is, would choose the right time. To do otherwise would suggest incompetence. So "whether" seems to be the wrong question. "Why," perhaps? Why did God's omniscience lead God to choose that time? Dunno. But did God's omniscience lead to that choice? Clearly so (at least if one wishes to hold that God is without error).David Handeye wrote:In fact, my doubt is whether first-century was the right time from God's perspective of his omniscience.
Right. Here's the "why." It's certainly an interesting question, but I don't know that we'll ever know the answer. The "easy" one would be "Because things would be even worse had God not acted 2,000 years ago." Maybe it's not fully satisfying, but it would be in keeping with traditional understandings of God's omniscience.David Handeye wrote:I may see God is working with a full view of things, but I wonder what these things could really be; I think humanity could have gone on up to twentieth century, with ups and downs as well, knowledge, science, technology, had made the same progresses as without Jesus coming. I think God sent his son for our souls, not for our comforts. So, is there a time in which our souls are more in need of their Creator's attention than this one we're living in? And there have been many more times, along history.
Such is the lot of being the creation, not the creator.David Handeye wrote:But, as you say, God is aware, only I can't understand.
ReliStuPhD wrote:Such is the lot of being the creation, not the creator.
sad fate, yes. Ciao ReliSWell, actually Blaggard, I didn't ask religious people, not properly. I do think we have reason, thinking capability, so we have the holy right to think, and to question everything we claim to be questionable, else we lose our right to be judged for our deeds and our thoughts regardless the consequences of our acts.Blaggard wrote:You're asking a question that cannot be answered by religious people.
Religion is full of such questions, hence the apologetics movement in any religion. Suffice to say Jesus came to save mankind, from what in that time and why, and even how who alone knows? he just did, as to whether any such man did it who was the son of God, or even existed in history lacks any detail. I do think though in a land which is waiting for a saviour, self fulfilling prophecy is very easy. As to whether it was fulfilled, I am aware I have no right to ask the faithful, who believe it must of, no right at all, and never should, it is true by default regardless of any historical evidence. I have the right to question history, I have the right to question knowledge and reason, I do not apparently have the right to question belief.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70IAwHTzrHI
Stop saying ahhhhh for once in your Jesus life.
Ridiculous actually. For a God there is no "right" or "wrong" time. For a God, if they "fuck up" the God simply Flood's the planet. It is ridiculous to say that now is not the "right" time for Jesus2 to show up and feed the starving africadudes. Why not perform more of his bread multiplication tricks? Oh yes I know why, you are drawing up excuses for this God of yours. Like Job, God could rape your babies and kill your family, and you would still praise Him, because you believe God is right, by definition.ReliStuPhD wrote:No, that's not my point. Here, you're arguing from a human understanding of when Palestine needs help, but your initial question dealt with God's understanding. In effect, your original question answered itself. If God is, in fact, omniscient, then the reason God sent Jesus to first-century Palestine was because that's when Jesus was needed most. Whether we think that was the right time is irrelevant, since we can't claim omniscience. God is working with a full view of things. For all we know, God is aware of a possible future where humans drove one another to extinction if Jesus had not come when he did. As for why the subway comes at 2:12 instead of 2:15, it's quite likely that those with access to the relevant information have determined 2:12 is the better time for a whole host of non-arbitrary reasons, your limited knowledge notwithstanding.well, to say the truth, Palestine is being in need of help since the dawn of time. Also nowadays. Maybe even more, nowadays.
I think, really, subway always comes at 2:12, doesn't matter whoever in need, or whoever in time. If you're in time, you jump on, else you wait for the next. While Jesus was sent just for our needs, for our salvation.
All that to say, it borders on nonsense for someone with a limited view of a situation to question the decision of someone with a full view of the situation why they made the choice they did
Ciao Ginkgo,Ginkgo wrote:Interesting question.
People in that particular period of time lived and died according to their political, social, philosophical and ethical beliefs. This applied to Roman and non-Roman citizens. Gladiators also lived and died according to their particular level of skill.
In ancient Rome, if you are going to make a statement of any kind then you better make it a good one because it will probably be the last statement you will ever make.
Jesus was a man for that particular time.
No, that's a ridiculous actuality. You've missed the entire point. You're trying to rationalize the choice of an omniscient being from the standpoint of limited knowledge. It borders on incoherence. "I know you know everything, but you're wrong to have not picked the present, your complete knowledge of all possibilities aside." Can you not see how little sense that makes? If you want to maintain that God's not omniscient or good, fine. That would at least make sense. But if you assent to omniscience, it's nonsense to maintain that you know better given your finite knowledge.GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:Ridiculous actually. For a God there is no "right" or "wrong" time. For a God, if they "fuck up" the God simply Flood's the planet. It is ridiculous to say that now is not the "right" time for Jesus2 to show up and feed the starving africadudes. Why not perform more of his bread multiplication tricks? Oh yes I know why, you are drawing up excuses for this God of yours. Like Job, God could rape your babies and kill your family, and you would still praise Him, because you believe God is right, by definition.ReliStuPhD wrote:No, that's not my point. Here, you're arguing from a human understanding of when Palestine needs help, but your initial question dealt with God's understanding. In effect, your original question answered itself. If God is, in fact, omniscient, then the reason God sent Jesus to first-century Palestine was because that's when Jesus was needed most. Whether we think that was the right time is irrelevant, since we can't claim omniscience. God is working with a full view of things. For all we know, God is aware of a possible future where humans drove one another to extinction if Jesus had not come when he did. As for why the subway comes at 2:12 instead of 2:15, it's quite likely that those with access to the relevant information have determined 2:12 is the better time for a whole host of non-arbitrary reasons, your limited knowledge notwithstanding.well, to say the truth, Palestine is being in need of help since the dawn of time. Also nowadays. Maybe even more, nowadays.
I think, really, subway always comes at 2:12, doesn't matter whoever in need, or whoever in time. If you're in time, you jump on, else you wait for the next. While Jesus was sent just for our needs, for our salvation.
All that to say, it borders on nonsense for someone with a limited view of a situation to question the decision of someone with a full view of the situation why they made the choice they did