Philosophy Now Forum

Mark Question wrote:It is not IMPOrtant how we Make autonomous learning beings. Sex is Fun but Programming Can be too.
THOse beings grow. They learn, experince and memorize.

OUR friends could be philosophical zombies if They Are unconsious All The time. Are They?

cyborgs are already here! beware the guy with glasses or wooden leg.

do They have feelings? pain, scaryness, anger,..if They Seem to have, if They act like us? Scream, ESCape, attack,..did YOUR massproducted meat have feelings?

Actually, they are consciousness. They are like us in every way except they lack the experiential aspect of consciousness.

Naturally they don't actually exist. At least I don't think they do.

there is no concious without experience, feedback. philosophical zombie does not logically exist.

Mark Question wrote:there is no concious without experience, feedback. philosophical zombie does not logically exist.

And excatly how would you know that? This is grabbed out of thin air, jumping to conclusions.

The philosophical zombie is called a conceivability argument it used apriori reasoning to explain the way things could or might be. A bit like an apriori argument for the existence of God. Philosophical zombies are logically possible, but as far as we can tell they are not actually possible.

Ginkgo wrote:The philosophical zombie is called a conceivability argument it used apriori reasoning to explain the way things could or might be. A bit like an apriori argument for the existence of God. Philosophical zombies are logically possible, but as far as we can tell they are not actually possible.

No, it's called cluelessness.

People with cronically amnesia (memory loss) who can't remember for more a few min at a time, are indeed very concious.

Google has made an autominous car, that can drive itself, over a test week it ran perfectly but hat 3 accidents, those were man made. So only when there was a human driver it would have accidents, which clearly speaks volume about how good analytic senses it has.

Imo concousness are as a low lvl feature in machines, people tend to ONLY think of high lvl conciousness, with the ability to abstractly make conclusions, which is a whole lot different than conciousness itself.

HexHammer wrote:

Ginkgo wrote:The philosophical zombie is called a conceivability argument it used apriori reasoning to explain the way things could or might be. A bit like an apriori argument for the existence of God. Philosophical zombies are logically possible, but as far as we can tell they are not actually possible.

No, it's called cluelessness.

People with cronically amnesia (memory loss) who can't remember for more a few min at a time, are indeed very concious.

Google has made an autominous car, that can drive itself, over a test week it ran perfectly but hat 3 accidents, those were man made. So only when there was a human driver it would have accidents, which clearly speaks volume about how good analytic senses it has.

Imo concousness are as a low lvl feature in machines, people tend to ONLY think of high lvl conciousness, with the ability to abstractly make conclusions, which is a whole lot different than conciousness itself.

Hex, the philosophical zombie is like the autonomous car.

Ginkgo wrote:Hex, the philosophical zombie is like the autonomous car.

I've just looked it up, I stand corred and I appolegize.

There's nothing wrong with consciousness just being the ability to navigate around successfully in the environment and / or being able to identify what is sensed. That is, even should EVERYONE be minus the appearances or exhibited content usually associated with the perceptual / cognitive processes spurring those bodily responses. It's just that the "shown" evidence of such people verbally reporting to each other that they were successfully doing that (as auditory phenomena) would just as much be missing as the "shown" evidence of their performing those activities in a world (as visual images).

A completely dark room can have all kinds of things and events transpiring in it, or not, as long as the "light" [images, sounds, odors, tactile sensations, etc] is never turned on to verify what the situation actually is. A universe that never evolved conscious agents with experiences could endure for a hundred trillion years and accordingly have been devoid of less evidence that it ever existed than Zeus.

PLANET ZORON: "Hey, I've got an iron-clad argument that we and this 100% unshown universe exist, despite our residing in this utter lack of appearances."

PLANET BELDUX: "Fantastic. How do I confirm that we are bizarrely intelligent and communicative celestial bodies having a conversation about this breakthrough, since there is only the nothingness you refer to?"

PLANET ZORON: "Because we're obviously receiving this information from each other."

PLANET BELDUX: "Yeah, I know this, I know that we're having invisible or non-manifested transactions. But how do I verify that I know this? Like I said, there ain't nothing but nothing."

hammock

I'm not sure you really understand the arguments presented.

HexHammer wrote:hammock I'm not sure you really understand the arguments presented.

I'm fishing for other potential p-zombies. You've already been hooked before I got here.

if Experience is Gathered Information and Conciousnes is All about analyzing personally Gathered Information, Then there is no Conciousnes without Experience. Also there is no unconsious sensing without Experienced sense Information.

Logic is Only apriori there is if apriori Means Logical CONNECTions in aposteori. Time, Space and Causality Are Only Logical Structures.

Mark Question wrote:if Experience is Gathered Information and Conciousnes is All about analyzing personally Gathered Information, Then there is no Conciousnes without Experience. Also there is no unconsious sensing without Experienced sense Information.

Agree with that. Let's just say your statement contains and interesting story if you are interested in hearing it.

Mark Question wrote:
Logic is Only apriori there is if apriori Means Logical CONNECTions in aposteori. Time, Space and Causality Are Only Logical Structures.

There is a distinction between the analytic and the apriori. Easily overlooked.

Mark Question wrote:if Experience is Gathered Information and Conciousnes is All about analyzing personally Gathered Information, Then there is no Conciousnes without Experience. Also there is no unconsious sensing without Experienced sense Information.

Logic is Only apriori there is if apriori Means Logical CONNECTions in aposteori. Time, Space and Causality Are Only Logical Structures.

Experience is irrelevant for conciousness. People with cronically amnesia are concious. People in vegetative state are cioncious.

Ginkgo wrote:

Mark Question wrote:if Experience is Gathered Information and Conciousnes is All about analyzing personally Gathered Information, Then there is no Conciousnes without Experience. Also there is no unconsious sensing without Experienced sense Information.

Agree with that. Let's just say your statement contains and interesting story if you are interested in hearing it.

Mark Question wrote:
Logic is Only apriori there is if apriori Means Logical CONNECTions in aposteori. Time, Space and Causality Are Only Logical Structures.

There is a distinction between the analytic and the apriori. Easily overlooked.

i am interested Hearing your story, Please tell.

analytic distinction between the analytic and the apriori is like fruitfull distinction between the fruit and the mangofruit.

HexHammer wrote:

Mark Question wrote:if Experience is Gathered Information and Conciousnes is All about analyzing personally Gathered Information, Then there is no Conciousnes without Experience. Also there is no unconsious sensing without Experienced sense Information.

Logic is Only apriori there is if apriori Means Logical CONNECTions in aposteori. Time, Space and Causality Are Only Logical Structures.

Experience is irrelevant for conciousness. People with cronically amnesia are concious. People in vegetative state are cioncious.

there is no unconsious or consious sensing without sense information. Old or new sense information in the nerve systems. learned patterns like language and other abstract "things".