Philosophy Now Forum

Teleology is a mugs game if you ask me, what purpose does Sysiphus have to rolling a rock up a hill only for it to roll back down again when he reaches the summit?

"I refuse to believe that God gave us the faculty of reason only to forgo its use."

Voltaire.

We have not forgone reason.
we are 3 year olds learning to use it.

Hjarloprillar wrote:We have not forgone reason.
we are 3 year olds learning to use it.

I'll have you know I am at least mentally 9 actually.

Life is just a way to pass eternity without being constantly insane.

Life is a short warm moment, and death is a long cold rest!

Hjarloprillar wrote:Foghorn

"What purpose/goal does humanity have?"

your reply. "Why should it?"

It had long since come to my attention that people of accomplishment rarely sat back and let things happen to them. They went out and happened to things.
Leonardo da Vinci

[if your going to quote]

Prill

But this is the individual having a purpose not this thing you call "humanity" having one.

Arising_uk wrote:

Hjarloprillar wrote:Foghorn

"What purpose/goal does humanity have?"

your reply. "Why should it?"

It had long since come to my attention that people of accomplishment rarely sat back and let things happen to them. They went out and happened to things.
Leonardo da Vinci

[if your going to quote]

Prill

But this is the individual having a purpose not this thing you call "humanity" having one.

75+ years back a nation of 70 millions was given a purpose by one man. That many, 70 millions is in same set as all the 3000 millions of that time..BIG.
The purpose was to remake asgaard on earth.
That nation rebuilt itself from near penury and shame to the most potent war machine on the planet.

But for the stubborn English the Reich owned most of europe by late '42.
One man.

Prill
_______________________
Or a truly great man [1.5 minutes]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kza-iTe2100

Polls were taken round the world afterwards.
"Was this an American dream made real. Or a dream of all peoples"

Over 75% said moon mission [11] Was a pinicle of pride in ourselves and all humanity.

Foghorn. I know where your coming from , and mostly i agree. But as race we are still very young.
Th war on stupidity must be won 1st. that will be a bad war

Hjarloprillar wrote:What purpose/goal does humanity have?
none but survival it seems.

How can we tout reason as "a game changer" when we in action behave like cockroaches.

where is our imagination and chutzpah...f***** if i know

HP,
Good enough question, but if you really are looking for an answer to it, would you not want to first know what humanity is?

This is a deeper question with diverse answers from religionists, scientists, etc, each according to their subset of conventional beliefs.

I propose that the "is" answer determines the "purpose" answer.

If you agree, perhaps we can pursue this subject. Otherwise, no point in trying.

"Digital Universe -- Analog Soul," offers an answer to the "is" question, and proposes answers to the "purpose" question. Yep, I'm pitching my book, trying to make another $2.37. Or, perhaps I'm looking for someone who is genuinely interested in answers to the level of philosophical questions you are sneaking up to actually asking.

Greylorn

i think the purpose in human beings as life forms is to become more aware of there universal spiritual identity.anything less than this is a waste of an individuals life.

jackles wrote:i think the purpose in human beings as life forms is to become more aware of there universal spiritual identity.anything less than this is a waste of an individuals life.

Jackles,

Perhaps you have a sense of it. Examining your statement at face value, I'd propose to flesh it out with detail.

The term "spiritual identity" is not meaningful unless "spirit" is defined. Religious definitions are inadequate, because they want to put "soul" and "spirit" outside the purview of physics. How then can spirit have a useful connection with a physical body?

I've encountered myriad individuals who claim to have what we would probably both label, "a sense of their spiritual identity." Yet, their lives are typically fruitless, as they indulge the same emotions and focus upon similar personal comforts and easy survival as do "non-spiritual" people.

I propose that there is no point in identifying something, whether it be a spiritual identity or a new physics principle, unless one can put the identified thing into a wider context and actually do something with it.

Gl

consciousness is where the event as in physics and the spirit intertwine.i believe myself that all things came into being from consciousness.in other words consciousness prexisted any event.physics is energy and how it works.so i believe energy is a form of consciousness.man and other animals is a way for consciousness to experience its self via brains and chemical emotions.man is two identitys one is what the brain thinks it is.but the real one is consciousness.

Greylorn Ell wrote: I've encountered myriad individuals who claim to have what we would probably both label, "a sense of their spiritual identity." Yet, their lives are typically fruitless, as they indulge the same emotions and focus upon similar personal comforts and easy survival as do "non-spiritual" people.
I propose that there is no point in identifying something, whether it be a spiritual identity or a new physics principle, unless one can put the identified thing into a wider context and actually do something with it.
Gl

Agree
Stand up for what you believe. Argue and argue well.
Act . though this is hardest and i will not say much more.. but act according to your beliefs.

through this regimen confidence is gained... use it.


Prill

Hjarloprillar wrote:

Greylorn Ell wrote: I've encountered myriad individuals who claim to have what we would probably both label, "a sense of their spiritual identity." Yet, their lives are typically fruitless, as they indulge the same emotions and focus upon similar personal comforts and easy survival as do "non-spiritual" people.
I propose that there is no point in identifying something, whether it be a spiritual identity or a new physics principle, unless one can put the identified thing into a wider context and actually do something with it.
Gl

Agree
Stand up for what you believe. Argue and argue well.
Act . though this is hardest and i will not say much more.. but act according to your beliefs.

through this regimen confidence is gained... use it.

Prill

Prill,

Thank you.

49 years ago I gave myself the same advice, and proceeded to follow it. Of course this was not easy, so I followed in fits and starts, with numerous behavioral corrections, nonetheless staying the general course of it. You are correct about actions. They are either the impediment or the stop.

The final results of this course of action are not yet in, and won't be until long after the fat lady sings, but you might be interested in the intermediate score. So far it looks like, Greylorn 3, Everyone_Else 7,000,000,000 (approximately). This score is based upon an estimated approval/agreement rating.

Were the score to be based upon a different standard, such as economic advantages, it would be more in my favor, because I live in a country where free enterprise and the ability to solve problems had once been valued, and I had the good sense to keep a day job.

I promise you that spending a half-century butting one's head against brick walls does not build confidence. It builds the callous of indifference, makes life difficult, relationships with women a waste of time, and congenial relationships with the kind of people who make lots of money, impossible. Success, satisfaction, and personal happiness are found only within one of the available mainstreams of human belief. Outside of the popular mainstreams, one best learn Plans B, C, D, etc. I'm personally fond of Plan 9 From Outer Space, a dumb but edgy use of limited resources and dubious talent.

My plans required writing off previous ideas and beliefs, discarding them all in the face of new evidence or better insights, then rebuilding.

None of this builds confidence. It can reinforce properties such as persistence and determination. Are these useful? All my childhood bullies were determined and persistent. So are criminals and thugs, communists and union leaders. All the really shitty presidents of the U.S., Lincoln, Wilson, the Roosevelts, Nixon, Carter, the Bushes, Clinton, and B.O. had or have these properties.

It seems to me that the ability to study a problem in depth and analyze the shit out of it until it is solved is a better ability than the confidence that once the problem has been solved, it can be successfully presented to the myriad of others who imagine, mistakenly, that they've done the same.

Gl

jackles wrote:consciousness is where the event as in physics and the spirit intertwine.i believe myself that all things came into being from consciousness.in other words consciousness prexisted any event.physics is energy and how it works.so i believe energy is a form of consciousness.man and other animals is a way for consciousness to experience its self via brains and chemical emotions.man is two identitys one is what the brain thinks it is.but the real one is consciousness.

Jackles,

You seem to have a nearly-correct general sense of consciousness, but not about its relationship to physics. Your comments suggest that you care about the subject of metaphysics, and have some excellent insights that you could bring to bear upon a variety of subjects. I love your general level of curiosity, but in reading your material I wonder if you've spent your last twenty lifetimes on a planet circling Arcturus. Your insights do not connect well. (And WhoTF am I to complain?)

Perhaps you could read more books. A good book on English grammar might facilitate your communication skills, and could be an excellent place to start. Then, some basic physics, focusing upon energy and entropy as general concepts. Note also that we seem to live in a cause-effect universe. Don't read mystical metaphysics books channeled from some spook whose nuts you cannot get a grip around, and stop watching documentary tv pseudo-science channels.

Best regards,
Gl

Gl

It seems to me that the ability to study a problem in depth and analyze the shit out of it until it is solved is a better ability than the confidence that once the problem has been solved, it can be successfully presented to the myriad of others who imagine, mistakenly, that they've done the same.
Is confidence.

For they who mistakenly 'did' the same. did not,
They took another pov and called it their own.

I noticed Eisenhower is not on your list. nor mine.. his parting speech was an eye opener
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUXtyIQjubU

that is confidence.
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ps plan 9 was brilliant in its own way. many 50's 60's sf were.
original startrek caused much lament in certain circles.. a black woman on bridge. nippon and russian helmsmen.
scotty can't be replaced a scot engineer is the only choice. And a true alien. spock ~logic machine as xo. And counterpoint to Kirk.
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live long and prosper

Prill

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the 60's/70's were a great time to be alive. some say the best in history for 1st worlders.
Now i seem stuck in this surrealistic bureaucratic nightmare called 'our world'..help me please.

Your purpose is to create your purpose