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Re: What does 'Philosophical Enquiry' mean to you?
Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:06 am
by duszek
marjoramblues wrote:duszek wrote:
Philosophical = loving wisdome.
What kind of thinking loves wisdom ?
Cloudy, fuzzy and emotional probably hardly so.
Analytical, disciplined, honest, probably yes.
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What goes on in our heads when we think ?
1. We shift concepts (expressed by words) and reorganize them and see what comes out.
2. We switch from one vague feeling to another vague feeling. And start to produce texts when a feeling tells us to do it.
This text can be an excuse, an answer, an insult, a provocation, a hug, etc.
Hmmm, where to start...from the heart?
You see, something about this definition of 'philosophical' grates on me every time I see it.
It's like philosophers are making themselves and their questions so very 'above' everyone else.
Philosophical Enquiry, then, means what ? Questions which only lovers of wisdom ask, or a wise method to find wise answers?
'Kinds of thinking' - can't love wisdom, only people do.
Cloudy, fuzzy, and emotional thinking - may be just the very kinds of thinking which happen during a Philosophical Enquiry. From start to end of the process.
Analytical, disciplined, honest thinking - yes, important to have control and use particular ways of thinking. How much of this goes on within, let's say, a philosophical forum; what can be described as genuine philosophical enquiry?
I like your description of what goes on in our heads when we are thinking; what do you mean by 'texts' - only written ?
No, also spoken. Spoken silently in our minds for example.
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Why texts at all ? Would not worldless jumps in the brain be enough ?
Often they are, but language is a useful tool to "think things over" and to organize our priorities and options.
That is why it is helpful to make a written list of something, and to put things down, in a note-book or in a diary.
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Emotions come from the heart but more often even from the stomach.
Often enough the stomach makes decisions and the brain finds logical arguments to justify them, brain is like a hired lawyer who pleads in favour of what the client wants.
The audience for the argument is sometimes other people and sometimes one´s own ego.
Re: What does 'Philosophical Enquiry' mean to you?
Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 7:08 pm
by marjoramblues
Emotions come from the heart but more often even from the stomach.
Often enough the stomach makes decisions and the brain finds logical arguments to justify them, brain is like a hired lawyer who pleads in favour of what the client wants.
The audience for the argument is sometimes other people and sometimes one´s own ego.
Interesting the links between mind/body and action/inaction; deciding how much effort and time can be used to pursue certain philo topics or posters.
Sometimes, I wish I could let things go; and sometimes I do for the sake of my physical health.
However, the confused/angry mind, racing heart and churning stomach are sometimes only stilled by clearing the air.
I suppose the wisdom comes in finding the balance; zooming in to analyse, zooming out to gain perspective.
The other 'texts' as products, I was thinking about art...the Scream, if you like.
Re: What does 'Philosophical Enquiry' mean to you?
Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 2:58 pm
by duszek
Yes, this sounds good to me.
The point of analytical exercises is to jog the brain, I suppose.
So that when quick decisions are to be taken by the stomach, the brain obliges and produces the write texts to say.
The stomach knows but cannot say anything. The brain has to do the saying, it has to say the right thing in the right moment, and spare trouble to the troubled individual.
If the brain is not skillful at producing the right text at the right moment the emotions go worse and worse because of the feelings of being trapped more and more.
In a civilized world the right text matters. Otherwise the right gesture matters or some other expression of one´s will.
Re: What does 'Philosophical Enquiry' mean to you?
Posted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:24 pm
by Lakin
The Voice of Time wrote:marjoramblues wrote:What is Philosophical Enquiry?
A misspell of "inquiry"?
Not really .
Enquiry is the verb and
Inquiry is the noun but the Americans, semantically, tend to use
Inquiry for both cases .
Re: What does 'Philosophical Enquiry' mean to you?
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:48 am
by marjoramblues
Lakin wrote:The Voice of Time wrote:marjoramblues wrote:What is Philosophical Enquiry?
A misspell of "inquiry"?
Not really .
Enquiry is the verb and
Inquiry is the noun but the Americans, semantically, tend to use
Inquiry for both cases .
Thanks, Lakin, but we pretty much cleared that up for Voice. Unfortunately, the topic hasn't seized his interest enough to return and share his thoughts. Having said that, sometimes answers don't need to be explicit; you only have to take a look around and see that 'philosophical enquiry' is an integral part of Voice.
So, Lakin, welcome to the forum. Any particular 'enquiry' which draws you here?
Re: What does 'Philosophical Enquiry' mean to you?
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:48 pm
by tmoody
I approach it from the question: What is a philosophical problem? Philosophical inquiry starts with philosophical problems. Often, but not always, philosophical problems arise when there is conflict among things we think we know about reality. In such cases, we can list a set of propositions, each one of which we think we have very good reasons to accept, but which can't all be true. At least one must be rejected and the problem is to choose which one.
Re: What does 'Philosophical Enquiry' mean to you?
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:41 pm
by duszek
A practical philosophical question:
What would be a good and wise decision in this particular moment in the history of mankind ?
Taken by a good and wise mind incorporated in my particular body.
A theoretical philosophical question:
Does a human consciousness die with the body or does it survive somewhere ?
Re: What does 'Philosophical Enquiry' mean to you?
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:24 pm
by thedoc
duszek wrote:
A theoretical philosophical question:
Does a human consciousness die with the body or does it survive somewhere ?
I would suggest that this particular phrasing makes this a religious or spiritual question more that philosophical.
In Philosophical terms I would suggest "Is the human consciousness a part of the human body that is inseparable from it, or can it exist apart from, and outside the human body".
Depending on how the philosophical question is answered, the spiritual question may or may not have any relevance.
Re: What does 'Philosophical Enquiry' mean to you?
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:56 pm
by duszek
thedoc wrote:duszek wrote:
A theoretical philosophical question:
Does a human consciousness die with the body or does it survive somewhere ?
I would suggest that this particular phrasing makes this a religious or spiritual question more that philosophical.
In Philosophical terms I would suggest "Is the human consciousness a part of the human body that is inseparable from it, or can it exist apart from, and outside the human body".
Depending on how the philosophical question is answered, the spiritual question may or may not have any relevance.
Because the terms "die" and "survive" sound spiritual and religious and the terms "exist apart from and outside sth" sound philosophical ?
I thought I formulated in a Darwinian and materialist way.
Re: What does 'Philosophical Enquiry' mean to you?
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:24 pm
by thedoc
duszek wrote:thedoc wrote:duszek wrote:
A theoretical philosophical question:
Does a human consciousness die with the body or does it survive somewhere ?
I would suggest that this particular phrasing makes this a religious or spiritual question more that philosophical.
In Philosophical terms I would suggest "Is the human consciousness a part of the human body that is inseparable from it, or can it exist apart from, and outside the human body".
Depending on how the philosophical question is answered, the spiritual question may or may not have any relevance.
Because the terms "die" and "survive" sound spiritual and religious and the terms "exist apart from and outside sth" sound philosophical ?
I thought I formulated in a Darwinian and materialist way.
It has always been my understanding that Philosophy dealt with humans and their lives, and that religion dealt with life or existence after death. Perhaps you have a different understanding of Philosophy?
Re: What does 'Philosophical Enquiry' mean to you?
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:58 pm
by duszek
thedoc wrote:duszek wrote:
A theoretical philosophical question:
Does a human consciousness die with the body or does it survive somewhere ?
I would suggest that this particular phrasing makes this a religious or spiritual question more that philosophical.
In Philosophical terms I would suggest "Is the human consciousness a part of the human body that is inseparable from it, or can it exist apart from, and outside the human body".
Depending on how the philosophical question is answered, the spiritual question may or may not have any relevance.
But in this post you say that asking whether the human consciousness can exist apart from the human body is philosophical.
You seem to contradict yourself, a little.
But it is not essential for me to insist on such matters.
Peace.
Re: What does 'Philosophical Enquiry' mean to you?
Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:03 am
by marjoramblues
tmoody wrote:I approach it from the question: What is a philosophical problem? Philosophical inquiry starts with philosophical problems. Often, but not always, philosophical problems arise when there is conflict among things we think we know about reality. In such cases, we can list a set of propositions, each one of which we think we have very good reasons to accept, but which can't all be true. At least one must be rejected and the problem is to choose which one.
So, I would be interested to hear more about the types of philosophical problems encountered in daily life as well as the more academic thrillers.
I'm trying to think of the kind of problems, or propositions, that have affected me and whether it was philosophy that helped me to resolve them, or something else...but it's too early in the morning.
Is it only ever about problem-solving...?
Re: What does 'Philosophical Enquiry' mean to you?
Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:15 am
by marjoramblues
@duszek and thedoc:
Interesting conversation; and distinction between the questions that academic philosophy might ask and the everyday questions which are, possibly, of more direct concern to 'commoners'
I think the important thing is to get to grips with asking the right questions; something I still struggle with. And by that I mean...actually being clear about what it is I want to know...
Re: formal logic, and the way it is so concise in breaking down the arguments/problems; I can't do it. I seem to remember an example by Rick - which spelled it out in a nutshell.
duszek: originally you mentioned analytical thinking. I agree that the ability to ask analytical questions - eg of articles - is central.
For example: see uwot, today, in the thread: 'Are Guns the Problem?'
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=11645&start=30
Re: What does 'Philosophical Enquiry' mean to you?
Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:32 am
by duszek
Analytical thinking helps to ask the right questions. Or good questions. Or questions which lead to interesting answers.
Analytical thinking goes on subconsciously, I suppose.
Things occur to the stomach and the brain formulates.
But analytical thinking is trained in subjects like maths or grammar.
Formal logic is one possible gym for the brain, but there many others.
The only opposite of analytical thinking I can think of is: free association.
A says apple and B says cherry. Or apple-pie. Or paradise.
All arguing requires analytical thinking.
Re: What does 'Philosophical Enquiry' mean to you?
Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:10 am
by marjoramblues
duszek wrote:Analytical thinking helps to ask the right questions. Or good questions. Or questions which lead to interesting answers.
Analytical thinking goes on subconsciously, I suppose.
Things occur to the stomach and the brain formulates.
But analytical thinking is trained in subjects like maths or grammar.
Formal logic is one possible gym for the brain, but there many others.
The only opposite of analytical thinking I can think of is: free association.
A says apple and B says cherry. Or apple-pie. Or paradise.
All arguing requires analytical thinking.
Analytical thinking can also involve imagination, being able to 'see' a situation, either simple or complicated, and trying to work out what exactly is going on.
As you say, it helps if the right questions are asked which might lead to 'a best possible solution', based on sometimes incomplete information.
Free association might help with this; letting your mind not be trapped by a rigid way of thinking?
Word association is a game, creative - or it can be used in psychology, I believe, as some way to assess thinking process?
Interesting to think that analytical thinking might go on subconsciously - I always thought of it as an active and engaged process...quite structured.