Margaret Thatcher, R.I.P.

[Arising_uk]

...
Yesterday and today on Fox I heard speakers say that when she entered office the UK unemployment rate was at 13%. When she left it was 5.8%. Did she reduce unemployment? What was your standard of living when she was in office?

Unemployed as it was the deepest recession we'd experienced since the 30's.

I now currently earn pretty much the same as I did when I was in my twenties but the cost of living has increased by a large multiple and I can now effectively not afford to buy a property where I live, mainly due to her party selling off our social housing and refusing to build anymore which promoted a housing 'boom'.

Depends what you mean by reducing unemployment as during her time it went up to three million odd and a large chunk of them never got back into full-time employment. From where I stand she 'reduced' the figures by changing the way the benefits were counted, much as New Labour continued to do, so a large chunk were shifted onto incapacity benefit which weren't then counted in the same way. Her party also wasted the revenues from north sea oil on benefits rather than spending upon retraining those that were made mass unemployed from the privatization and closure of our large industries. Again, don't get me wrong, I accept that maybe they needed changing but she ignored some of the unions who said okay but can we plan for retraining the workforce instead of just tossing them on the scrap-heap.

[Thozau]

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Judy Garland's Ding Dong the Witch is Dead races up charts after Margaret Thatcher's death

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Sorry R.I.P.leys, i cannot help to admit thats a very funny fact.
Well found Bill.

[spike]

Margaret Thatcher was a tough cookie. And it was good that she came along when she did because Britain and its economy was a sinking ship.

Anyway, the British economic ship had sunk and when Thatcher arrived its remains were in a lifeboat. The State no longer represented a glorious ship afloat but a mere lifeboat taking on water fast. In the years that followed she was faces with the lifeboat delema of whom to save and whom not to if there was any chance of saving the State and its remained. If she hadn't sacrificed some occupants, like the unions and other socialist cannibals, everything would have been lost.

[tbieter]

Margaret Thatcher was a tough cookie. And it was good that she came along when she did because Britain and its economy was a sinking ship.

Anyway, the British economic ship had sunk and when Thatcher arrived its remains were in a lifeboat. The State no longer represented a glorious ship afloat but a mere lifeboat taking on water fast. In the years that followed she was faces with the lifeboat delema of whom to save and whom not to if there was any chance of saving the State and its remained. If she hadn't sacrificed some occupants, like the unions and other socialist cannibals, everything would have been lost.

It has been frequently said that she saved England from socialism.

[tbieter]

Margaret Thatcher was a tough cookie. And it was good that she came along when she did because Britain and its economy was a sinking ship.

Anyway, the British economic ship had sunk and when Thatcher arrived its remains were in a lifeboat. The State no longer represented a glorious ship afloat but a mere lifeboat taking on water fast. In the years that followed she was faces with the lifeboat delema of whom to save and whom not to if there was any chance of saving the State and its remained. If she hadn't sacrificed some occupants, like the unions and other socialist cannibals, everything would have been lost.

It has been frequently said that she saved England from socialism.

When I read that contention during the past week I wondered if the Russians now have more consumer goods for sale than what they could buy when the Soviet Union existed.
Does anyone know?

[Arising_uk]

Margaret Thatcher was a tough cookie. And it was good that she came along when she did because Britain and its economy was a sinking ship.

Anyway, the British economic ship had sunk and when Thatcher arrived its remains were in a lifeboat. The State no longer represented a glorious ship afloat but a mere lifeboat taking on water fast. In the years that followed she was faces with the lifeboat delema of whom to save and whom not to if there was any chance of saving the State and its remained. If she hadn't sacrificed some occupants, like the unions and other socialist cannibals, everything would have been lost.

Were you around then? Or are you just spouting what you've read in the right-wing press.

[Arising_uk]

It has been frequently said that she saved England from socialism.

And yet by American standards she'd be a raging socialist.

[The Voice of Time]

Margaret Thatcher was a tough cookie. And it was good that she came along when she did because Britain and its economy was a sinking ship.

Anyway, the British economic ship had sunk and when Thatcher arrived its remains were in a lifeboat. The State no longer represented a glorious ship afloat but a mere lifeboat taking on water fast. In the years that followed she was faces with the lifeboat delema of whom to save and whom not to if there was any chance of saving the State and its remained. If she hadn't sacrificed some occupants, like the unions and other socialist cannibals, everything would have been lost.

It has been frequently said that she saved England from socialism.

I wonder who has the highest quality of living standards: Conservative England or Socialist France... ^^

Unemployment: UK - 7,8% (2012), France - 9,4% (2012)
Human Development Index (more is better): UK - 0.875 (2013, data for both only about a month old), France - 0.893 (2013)
Population below national poverty-line: UK - 14% (2006 data), France - 6.2% (2004 data, neither of the countries seem to have any more recent data as several web pages all seem to point towards these being the latest numbers... not that much have changed I would think)
Average disposable income: UK - 33,513 (2011, UK disposable income fell drastically -1,272 same year), France - 27,452 (2011, income increased marginally)
GDP: UK - 35,688 (2011), France - 35,133 (2011, marginal difference)
Household Debt to GDP (lower is better): UK - 207 (2013, 4 times that of France, indicating a lot of debt, and more there shall be, when all the students start having money-problems in the next generation of family-men and -women), France - 53 (2013, very low)

While you may pick and choose from your own preferences, I find that while there's a lot of money in the UK, a lot of it seems to debt and not flexible income, and France seems to offer more in terms of living in developed society with little poverty. And if anyone doubts that you can be rich in France if you want, then it should be noted France has the world's greatest density of billionaires across the population and that a quarter of all wealth in Europe lays in France. The unemployment rates, while not drastically different (though there were charts that was even worse off for France, my pick was OECD data) hints though that if having a job itself is very important to you, and to many people, or most people, that is very important (I myself only find it modestly important... that is I find it important but have my reservations) and for those people UK may provide a better setting. However, like a lot infamous work over in the US, where people who works at Walmart and fast-food places are hugely exploited for cheap labour, it may not benefit people to have work if their work is only a means for keeping their quality of life down while filling the pockets of rich people.

I don't know any similar stories from the UK, so I'll use the US as an example while I talk about capitalism versus socialism. A recent mini-strike in New York set out to raise the wages of fast-food workers from some insanely low level of 8-9 dollars. That's between a half and a third of the wage for the same type of job in Norway, so I was a bit shocked when I found out how bad their pays were (and in Norway you have lots of bonuses for late work, over-time, weekend work, sunday work, and so forth... standard working hours 7,5 hours with right to 0,5 hours lunch-break).

[spike]

Margaret Thatcher was a tough cookie. And it was good that she came along when she did because Britain and its economy was a sinking ship.

Anyway, the British economic ship had sunk and when Thatcher arrived its remains were in a lifeboat. The State no longer represented a glorious ship afloat but a mere lifeboat taking on water fast. In the years that followed she was faces with the lifeboat delema of whom to save and whom not to if there was any chance of saving the State and its remained. If she hadn't sacrificed some occupants, like the unions and other socialist cannibals, everything would have been lost.

Were you around then? Or are you just spouting what you've read in the right-wing press.

Yes, I was around then.

[spike]

The death of Margaret Thatcher made me simultaneously think of Karl Marx and Freddy Laker. Like Thatcher both men had an impact on the business of the world. Both, in different ways, championed the rights of people like Thatcher did.

[Arising_uk]

How old were you?

As this appears to have a relation to the reflections upon her tenure.

Take Cameron, I actually feel a little sorry for him as he appears genuinely puzzled as to the reactions to her death but then he was only twelve at the time so has no memory of how some were badly affected by the times. For example, her party basically criminalised a whole section of the working class at the time, i.e. the miners, and then proceeded to politicize the police and used them to assault them for a whole year. She basically bussed in the metropolitan police force to do the dirty work. One result of this has been a complete loss of trust, faith or respect for the police force up north. Generations now despise them and don't really know why, they've just inherited the hate.

[spike]

Arising_uk,

I don't see the point of arguing the good and bads of Thatcher's economic policy since we both see the world in two very different ways. I know she caused a lot of damage but it was damage that needed doing in order to save the whole nation.

At least she believed in National Health.

[duszek]

She put wallpaper on the walls of her country house herself. There is a picture in the Stern.

This is something a socialist cannot object to.

[spike]

From The Observer in London: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... ased-fraud

What I think:

Will Hutton makes a very strong case against Thatcherism. Why should it be considered such a success if at the moment the British economy is in such a mess?

One thing that Thatcherism brought was much needed economic reform. That reform is still at work. Prior to Thatcherism and its reforms the British economy was atrophying at lightening speed. If the atrophying had continued at that pace there would be no real economy to speak of today .

Economies are constantly works in progress. They go through cycles, ups and downs, periods of over exuberance and the inevitabilities of entropy. Thus economies constantly have to rejuvenate and rebuild. Prior to Thatcherism the British economy was living on its laurels, which had evaporated years ago. Thatcherism did away with the destructive complacency that had set in and ushered in a "creative destruction". It restored the attitude of innovation and competitiveness that is still in place today. Moreover, the attitude and restoration Thatcherism put in place will help overcome today's economic doldrums.

Thatcherism gave Britain something to work with and redefine itself. Prior to that Britain was floundering and going down the drain, turning into a real relic .

[Impenitent]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... spect.html

I wanna be Anarchy!!!

-Imp