Philosophy Now Forum

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/33 ... hilis.html

-Imp

HughKnows wrote:Are you sure it was a benign tumor? I definitely remember reading that it was untreated syphilis that made Nietzsche mad. In any case, I'm sure you are right that his breakdown had a medical cause, not a philosophical one!

It was benign in the sense that it was slow growing.

I'd like to address the comment from someone else that N was unkind to women. First of all this was hardly reflected in his personal life, where he usually displayed great politeness and gentleness toward the opposite gender. Secondly, if in his work he recognized and made expressions (usually 'whispered') concerning flaws in femaleness correctly, it can hardly be an argument that he was unkind to women, as can it hardly be an argument that he was misanthropic because he expressed some severe distaste and criticism for certain flaws in men.

Or to put it another way, Socrates was not much of a philosophers philosopher but his ideas and approach were very infective and Plato was the man who could make them more digestible for the masses, whilst in Aristotle we have a real philosopher's philosopher. It was a perfect triad.

Nietszche, philosophy is not for everyone becuase Nietzsche philosophy requires great courage. Only couragous people can stand alone against all and fight for the truth even when you dont like it or if it doesnot support your ideal or religion. Nietzche is very optimistic despite his illnesses and the decadence in our society today. He was able to look into the harshness of life and stand firm fighting against resentment and hate of the real world unlike the religious who desire anothre world in heaven and downgrade this world. Nieztsche is a relevant philosopher for our day, he teaches the eternal recurrence of the same, and Amor Fati and to be yourself and love it and most importantly to stand with courage, as Zarathustra says " so far courage has slain all my discouragement"

Philosophy Now wrote:Eric Walther introduces the infamous iconoclast.

http://philosophynow.org/issues/93/Niet ... ntemporary

Kaufmann's translation of Übermensch as 'overman' is horrible and should not be repeated. The best translation is 'superman' (after all, übermenschlich is 'superhuman', a word that has been around for several hundred years). The man who created the comic book Superman in 1938, was inspired by Nietzsche's creation.

Bernard wrote:

HughKnows wrote:Are you sure it was a benign tumor? I definitely remember reading that it was untreated syphilis that made Nietzsche mad. In any case, I'm sure you are right that his breakdown had a medical cause, not a philosophical one!

It was benign in the sense that it was slow growing.

I'd like to address the comment from someone else that N was unkind to women. First of all this was hardly reflected in his personal life, where he usually displayed great politeness and gentleness toward the opposite gender. Secondly, if in his work he recognized and made expressions (usually 'whispered') concerning flaws in femaleness correctly, it can hardly be an argument that he was unkind to women, as can it hardly be an argument that he was misanthropic because he expressed some severe distaste and criticism for certain flaws in men.

Or to put it another way, Socrates was not much of a philosophers philosopher but his ideas and approach were very infective and Plato was the man who could make them more digestible for the masses, whilst in Aristotle we have a real philosopher's philosopher. It was a perfect triad.

'Opposite sex', not 'opposite gender'.

Philosophy Now wrote:Eric Walther introduces the infamous iconoclast.

http://philosophynow.org/issues/93/Niet ... ntemporary

I have not read the article yet, but I can say that to think Nietzsche is in any way "our contemporary" is ludicrous in the extreme.

Melchior wrote:Kaufmann's translation of Übermensch as 'overman' is horrible and should not be repeated. The best translation is 'superman' (after all, übermenschlich is 'superhuman', a word that has been around for several hundred years.

Just wondering - does this mean uber alles means 'super all'? If not then is 'over' the better translation, or maybe 'above' would be better, i.e. Above Man.

Arising_uk wrote:

Melchior wrote:Kaufmann's translation of Übermensch as 'overman' is horrible and should not be repeated. The best translation is 'superman' (after all, übermenschlich is 'superhuman', a word that has been around for several hundred years.

Just wondering - does this mean uber alles means 'super all'? If not then is 'over' the better translation, or maybe 'above' would be better, i.e. Above Man.

Überall means everwhere/anywhere

Übermensch is best translated as 'superman'

Different prefixes, stems and suffixes can combine in German in ways that are not translatable simply by translating the components and then combining these. Some of these compounds are based on Latin, such as übernatürlich, which means 'supernatural'.

http://www.dict.cc/?s=%C3%BCbernat%C3%BCrlich

Speculating on what these words mean is pointless. You need to look them up. 'Overman' is simply wrong. What the deuce is an 'overman'?

http://www.dict.cc/?s=%C3%BCbermenschlich

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutschlandlied

Thanks.

In English I guess an Overman is pretty much the same as a Superman, or to my ears it is, although I'd admit Superman sounds better. Both imply something above and beyond a normal man and since he said there has to be a passing-over man before we get to this Over/Superman it kinda all makes sense.

Arising_uk wrote:Thanks.

In English I guess an Overman is pretty much the same as a Superman, or to my ears it is, although I'd admit Superman sounds better. Both imply something above and beyond a normal man and since he said there has to be a passing-over man before we get to this Over/Superman it kinda all makes sense.

Nope. I have no idea what an 'overman' is. It's not English.

Checking up on that, the noun 'overman' was used as the name of a supervisor in coal mines, underground. Hardly intuitive, LOL; it just means 'overseer'.

http://triggs.djvu.org/century-dictiona ... ry=overman

Melchior wrote:Nope. I have no idea what an 'overman' is. It's not English.

Checking up on that, the noun 'overman' was used as the name of a supervisor in coal mines, underground. Hardly intuitive, LOL; it just means 'overseer'.

There's a book that tells you whats English and whats not? We're not French and English dictionaries are after the event kinda things.

Overman appears to be understandable, the man who is over man, over and above a man, a superior or the overseer. I can see a comic book hero/villain calling themselves this, OverMan.

Still, thanks again and I accept your position as a translator that Superman is the more correct translation. Tricky stuff that, especially since you say there is no direct equivalent.

p.s.
I thought it Uber Alles? So you are saying its best understood as 'everywhere/anywhere all'? Seems a bit redundant.

Arising_uk wrote:

Melchior wrote:Nope. I have no idea what an 'overman' is. It's not English.

Checking up on that, the noun 'overman' was used as the name of a supervisor in coal mines, underground. Hardly intuitive, LOL; it just means 'overseer'.

There's a book that tells you whats English and whats not? We're not French and English dictionaries are after the event kinda things.

Overman appears to be understandable, the man who is over man, over and above a man, a superior or the overseer. I can see a comic book hero/villain calling themselves this, OverMan.

Still, thanks again and I accept your position as a translator that Superman is the more correct translation. Tricky stuff that, especially since you say there is no direct equivalent.

p.s.
I thought it Uber Alles? So you are saying its best understood as 'everywhere/anywhere all'? Seems a bit redundant.

No, über alles and überall are different; the first one is two words, the second is one. The first expression means 'above all', 'supreme', 'first and foremost', 'above everything', 'before everything else', etc. The second expression means 'everywhere/anywhere'. The sentiment is similar to 'my country right or wrong' or 'my country comes first'.

An 'overman' is someone who works in the mines supervising underground work. It is obviously an old term no longer in general use. I was unfamiliar with it. It was later re-invented by Kaufmann as a translation for übermensch. I am sure he was ignorant of the old mining term. It is a literal translation of the German word's components, but it is not correct.

Kaufman thought that overman allowed a better translation of the interplay between that word and the frequent allusions and references to 'over' and 'under' in other parts of sentences and paragraphs. All those references would be lost when using 'Super,' which has nothing to do with 'over' or 'under.' Something like if I was making puns and allusions to slavery while talking of a man named 'Freeman' in English. It wouldn't do to translate it as 'Cheapman' or 'Gratisman.'

Wyman wrote:Kaufman thought that overman allowed a better translation of the interplay between that word and the frequent allusions and references to 'over' and 'under' in other parts of sentences and paragraphs. All those references would be lost when using 'Super,' which has nothing to do with 'over' or 'under.' Something like if I was making puns and allusions to slavery while talking of a man named 'Freeman' in English. It wouldn't do to translate it as 'Cheapman' or 'Gratisman.'

I know perfectly well why Kaufmann did it. He was wrong for trying to preserve the word-play. The best thing to do it to forget about it. It cannot be translated. It can be appreciated properly only in the original.

Well, that's awfully selfish of you. I don't have time to learn German.