The Philosophy Discussion Forum

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Aug 20, 2026 1:42 pm But maybe here's a better question: what does the person who is filling their garage with unsatisfying material stuff really longing for?

They're looking for love, in things.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Aug 20, 2026 1:42 pm

Walker wrote:The extreme example is the bodhisattva who, unattached to self-cherishing, gives his body to the hungry tiger to ease the tiger’s suffering.

IC wrote:And isn't that silly? If it weren't also tragic, it would be merely absurd.

It’s illustrative, of course. The absurd tends to be remembered, as TV commercials prove.

The good guardian father also gives his life to his special, hungry little tigers, just over a longer span of time.
Those who flee from the responsibility might call that tragic.

Walker wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2026 1:34 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Aug 20, 2026 1:42 pm

Walker wrote:The extreme example is the bodhisattva who, unattached to self-cherishing, gives his body to the hungry tiger to ease the tiger’s suffering.

IC wrote:And isn't that silly? If it weren't also tragic, it would be merely absurd.

It’s illustrative, of course. The absurd tends to be remembered, as TV commercials prove.

The good guardian father also gives his life to his special, hungry little tigers, just over a longer span of time.
Those who flee from the responsibility might call that tragic.

Why is it more "moral" to feed your children, rather than to feed them to a tiger?

Walker wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2026 12:57 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Aug 20, 2026 1:42 pm But maybe here's a better question: what does the person who is filling their garage with unsatisfying material stuff really longing for?

They're looking for love, in things.

What is "love"? It can't be purely sexual, because even old people, who are well past the age of all that, may be grasping and materialistic. In fact, some of the most greedy are the elderly. So what is it they're seeking?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2026 5:36 pm Why is it more "moral" to feed your children, rather than to feed them to a tiger?

The first species you save should be your own.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2026 5:37 pm

Walker wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2026 12:57 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Aug 20, 2026 1:42 pm But maybe here's a better question: what does the person who is filling their garage with unsatisfying material stuff really longing for?

They're looking for love, in things.

What is "love"? It can't be purely sexual, because even old people, who are well past the age of all that, may be grasping and materialistic. In fact, some of the most greedy are the elderly. So what is it they're seeking?

They're some of the most lonely and unloved, too.

Walker wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2026 8:12 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2026 5:36 pm Why is it more "moral" to feed your children, rather than to feed them to a tiger?

The first species you save should be your own.

Why? What makes it your "first" duty to do that?

Walker wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2026 8:13 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2026 5:37 pm

Walker wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2026 12:57 pm
They're looking for love, in things.

What is "love"? It can't be purely sexual, because even old people, who are well past the age of all that, may be grasping and materialistic. In fact, some of the most greedy are the elderly. So what is it they're seeking?

They're some of the most lonely and unloved, too.

They are. But whose love are they missing, and being older now, why aren't they simply reconciled to their lot?

“Do not go gentle into that good night.”

Proclivities such as codginess vary as aspects of self, rather than definers of Self. The fewer the proclivities, the closer awareness aligns with Self, which means greater objectivity and less wallowing in how great that makes one.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2026 8:31 pm They are. But whose love are they missing, and being older now, why aren't they simply reconciled to their lot?

Children rooting in the toy box for a favourite toy are looking for love.
Women cultivating their flower gardens are looking for love.
The proof is that the toy gets worn out, sometimes broken.
The proof is that the garden thrives, in an organized kind of way.
Answer why for children and women, in general, and you’ll generally answer it for old folks too.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2026 8:30 pm

Walker wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2026 8:12 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2026 5:36 pm Why is it more "moral" to feed your children, rather than to feed them to a tiger?

The first species you save should be your own.

Why? What makes it your "first" duty to do that?

It's an innate capacity of the form that co-arises with consciousness, rather than of the form that does not.

If he had to, the bodhisattva would probably kill the tiger to save his son. But what if he was commanded by the highest authority he knew, to not kill the tiger, and allow it to eat the son?

He would need to throw every natural impulse away to do that.

Walker wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2026 9:23 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2026 8:30 pm

Walker wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2026 8:12 pm
The first species you save should be your own.

Why? What makes it your "first" duty to do that?

It's an innate capacity of the form that co-arises with consciousness, rather than of the form that does not.

That doesn't mean anything. I was hoping for an answer.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2026 9:29 pm

Walker wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2026 9:23 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2026 8:30 pm
Why? What makes it your "first" duty to do that?

It's an innate capacity of the form that co-arises with consciousness, rather than of the form that does not.

That doesn't mean anything. I was hoping for an answer.

Innate capacity says it all, except for the need to overcome that with faith.

Now it's your turn.

Walker wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2026 9:36 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2026 9:29 pm

Walker wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2026 9:23 pm
It's an innate capacity of the form that co-arises with consciousness, rather than of the form that does not.

That doesn't mean anything. I was hoping for an answer.

Innate capacity says it all, except for the need to overcome that with faith.

"Innate capacity"? But we also have an "innate capacity" for selfishness, manifestly; or for violence, and for all kinds of other things. So how does the appeal to "innate capacity" tell us anything at all?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2026 10:19 pm

Walker wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2026 9:36 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Aug 21, 2026 9:29 pm
That doesn't mean anything. I was hoping for an answer.

Innate capacity says it all, except for the need to overcome that with faith.

"Innate capacity"? But we also have an "innate capacity" for selfishness, manifestly; or for violence, and for all kinds of other things. So how does the appeal to "innate capacity" tell us anything at all?

Innate capacity obviously tells us that parents have a biological imperative to protect their children for the preservation of the species.

However, that innateness can be overridden by perceived need, greed, faith, or other factors.

An example of faith overriding the innate imperative to protect the child, is God’s command to a parent to kill his own son. The innateness of the faithful parent to protect the son is overridden by faith that killing the son is the right thing to do because God has commanded it, so the natural impulse is over-come and the parent says okay.

So, what does that tell us about God, and that parent?