Philosophy Now Forum

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Mar 26, 2025 12:13 am

seeds wrote: ↑Tue Mar 25, 2025 9:45 pm

Dubious wrote: ↑Tue Mar 25, 2025 3:09 am It would seem that America is striving to become the Russia of the West ready to apply its power in getting what it wants...unless something stops it from happening.

One can only hope that if the petulant pusbag in the "Whitey House" orders some sort of military invasion of Canada, or Mexico, or Greenland, or any of our other allies,...

...again, one would hope that the members of the military would refuse the orders and instead invade the "Whitey House" in order to surgically remove America's painful hemorrhoid along with its stinking cluster of clinging dingleberries.

However, seeing how the talking hemorrhoid might actually be the freakin' Antichrist, fate may have something else in mind.
_______

I wonder if Christians who voted for the "Anti-Christ" will be forgiven and go to Heaven or will God hold them accountable for their poor choice of leaders?

In the end, Gary, all will be forgiven.

However, I'm afraid the accountability for their poor choice in leaders will come to them (and the rest of us) in the here and now.
_______

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 24, 2025 11:55 pm

seeds wrote: ↑Mon Mar 24, 2025 11:33 pm

iambiguous wrote: ↑Thu Mar 20, 2025 5:50 am Welcome to the Cuban Missile Crisis redux?

Speaking of the "Cuban Missile Crisis,"...

...It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that at least part of the reason for the start of the Ukraine/Russia conflict was because of the imminent possibility that Ukraine was going to join NATO.

According to Wiki:

Ukraine-NATO ties gradually strengthened during the 1990s and 2000s, and Ukraine aimed to eventually join the alliance...

...At the June 2021 Brussels summit, NATO leaders reiterated the statement made at the 2008 Bucharest summit that Ukraine would eventually join NATO. In late 2021, there was another massive Russian military buildup around Ukraine. Russia's Foreign Ministry demanded that Ukraine be forbidden from ever joining NATO.

And the point is that if you are going to "poke the Russian bear" by literally bumping into its body,...

...then to understand Russia's response, all you have to do is harken back to the "Cuban Missile Crisis" and then imagine how America would respond if, say, China, Cuba, Laos, Vietnam, and North Korea formed an International Alliance of Communist Countries (IACC) and was attempting to get a willing Mexico (or a willing Canada) to join their alliance.

In other words, if America was pretty much willing to participate in a nuclear Armageddon with the Soviet Union because of the Soviet Union's relationship with a sovereign island nation that exists 90 miles away from America's nearest border (Key West, Florida),...

...then just imagine what America's warmongering boneheads would be willing to do if America's avowed enemies were trying to gain a foothold in territories that literally touch our southern or northern borders?

Again, if you're going to poke a bear (especially a mother bear), then don't be surprised if she tries to protect her cubs.
_______

EXCELLENT SEEDS! I wonder how it is that so many people don't get it.

Thank you, popeye1945, but you yourself had already pointed out pretty much the same thing to phyllo in an earlier post. So, "EXCELLENT" to you too.

And in regard to you wondering how it is that so many people don't get it.

Well, among other reasons, I think it might have something to do with the fact that a vast number of Americans suffer from cognitive issues like this guy, for example...

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/AyN34sFk ... ture=share

How would you explain it?
_______

The reason WHY so many people do NOT 'get it', 'it' just being the Truth, is BECAUSE when one is holding beliefs or presumptions, then they are, literally, NOT ABLE TO LOOK AT, and SEE, 'things' CLEARLY.

BELIEFS, and to a lesser extent PRESUMPTIONS, will ALWAYS TWIST and DISTORT one's ABILITY TO LOOK FOR, FIND, and SEE, the ACTUAL IRREFUTABLE Truth.

AND, the VERY PROOF FOR 'this phenomena' can be CLEARLY SEEN not just throughout this forum, here.

seeds wrote: ↑Tue Mar 25, 2025 9:45 pm

Dubious wrote: ↑Tue Mar 25, 2025 3:09 am It would seem that America is striving to become the Russia of the West ready to apply its power in getting what it wants...unless something stops it from happening.

One can only hope that if the petulant pusbag in the "Whitey House" orders some sort of military invasion of Canada, or Mexico, or Greenland, or any of our other allies,...

...again, one would hope that the members of the military would refuse the orders and instead invade the "Whitey House" in order to surgically remove America's painful hemorrhoid along with its stinking cluster of clinging dingleberries.

However, seeing how the talking hemorrhoid might actually be the freakin' Antichrist, fate may have something else in mind.
_______

Trump not even remotely amounts to the type of epochal presence characterized by an actual Anti-Christ. Hitler comes much closer but even he wasn't equal to the task. Trump instead almost perfectly duplicates a freaking, barely literate mental midget trapped in the web of his own depraved ego. His "thinking" never travels beyond that hellhole. If Trump is an instrument of fate, then the history of the human race is the biggest, grandest farce ever written!

I regard those who voted for him as the most gullible and culpable on the planet for having believed in a malicious, lying absurdity; a proven incarnation of every human deformity a person could have. Whatever misery gets inflicted on those who granted him the Presidency, I have absolutely no sympathy for. All the evil omens were there but those demented turds still allowed him to access the highest office in the land which now so many, in retrospect, are howling about.

Certain it is that ALL the destructive consequences of Trump's decisions including the rest of the lowlifes occupying his cuckoo's nest of a cabinet, now and in the future will be diverted to Biden and the Democrat's as the culprits. It's already happening.

Total cowardice and depravity in the White House has reached its apotheosis!

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 24, 2025 11:55 pm

seeds wrote: ↑Mon Mar 24, 2025 11:33 pm

iambiguous wrote: ↑Thu Mar 20, 2025 5:50 am Welcome to the Cuban Missile Crisis redux?

Speaking of the "Cuban Missile Crisis,"...

...It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that at least part of the reason for the start of the Ukraine/Russia conflict was because of the imminent possibility that Ukraine was going to join NATO.

According to Wiki:

Ukraine-NATO ties gradually strengthened during the 1990s and 2000s, and Ukraine aimed to eventually join the alliance...

...At the June 2021 Brussels summit, NATO leaders reiterated the statement made at the 2008 Bucharest summit that Ukraine would eventually join NATO. In late 2021, there was another massive Russian military buildup around Ukraine. Russia's Foreign Ministry demanded that Ukraine be forbidden from ever joining NATO.

And the point is that if you are going to "poke the Russian bear" by literally bumping into its body,...

...then to understand Russia's response, all you have to do is harken back to the "Cuban Missile Crisis" and then imagine how America would respond if, say, China, Cuba, Laos, Vietnam, and North Korea formed an International Alliance of Communist Countries (IACC) and was attempting to get a willing Mexico (or a willing Canada) to join their alliance.

In other words, if America was pretty much willing to participate in a nuclear Armageddon with the Soviet Union because of the Soviet Union's relationship with a sovereign island nation that exists 90 miles away from America's nearest border (Key West, Florida),...

...then just imagine what America's warmongering boneheads would be willing to do if America's avowed enemies were trying to gain a foothold in territories that literally touch our southern or northern borders?

Again, if you're going to poke a bear (especially a mother bear), then don't be surprised if she tries to protect her cubs.
_______

EXCELLENT SEEDS! I wonder how it is that so many people don't get it.

You don't get it either. After the Holodomor, the Soviet occupation and Chernobyl (and the suppression in Tsarist times Phyllo already mentioned), wouldn't you want to join NATO too, to keep the Russians out? Only a murderer like Putin would say that Ukraine is Russia's cub.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 20, 2025 9:28 pm That is all very nice AI, but what is the most pertaining cause of the present-day crisis? It is the American war machine wanting to occupy Ukraine on Russia's border. Something it promised never to do to get Russia to agree to the unification of Germany. Since 1990 it has been never-ending lies and an ever encroachment of Russia's border. How would America react if Russia or China set up in Canada on the American border? Come on guys, it's not brain surgery.

No, the most pertaining cause is Russia's long-term behaviour. What you say sounds more like Russian propaganda. NATO didn't really have to encroach in Middle-Eastern Europe, countries there wanted to join NATO themselves. And some verbal promise between enemies doesn't count for much, there is no official treaty saying that NATO won't be expanded East. Russia did break official treaties with its invasions of Ukraine though.

If the Ukrainians and the Russians were as close brothers as you imagine them to be, then the meddling of US agents and/or Western deep state agents in Ukraine couldn't have turned the country like that.

Russia's long-term behaviour is literally the primary cause why it's getting surrounded by NATO.

Atla wrote: ↑Wed Mar 26, 2025 4:20 am

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 24, 2025 11:55 pm

seeds wrote: ↑Mon Mar 24, 2025 11:33 pm
Speaking of the "Cuban Missile Crisis,"...

...It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that at least part of the reason for the start of the Ukraine/Russia conflict was because of the imminent possibility that Ukraine was going to join NATO.

According to Wiki:
And the point is that if you are going to "poke the Russian bear" by literally bumping into its body,...

...then to understand Russia's response, all you have to do is harken back to the "Cuban Missile Crisis" and then imagine how America would respond if, say, China, Cuba, Laos, Vietnam, and North Korea formed an International Alliance of Communist Countries (IACC) and was attempting to get a willing Mexico (or a willing Canada) to join their alliance.

In other words, if America was pretty much willing to participate in a nuclear Armageddon with the Soviet Union because of the Soviet Union's relationship with a sovereign island nation that exists 90 miles away from America's nearest border (Key West, Florida),...

...then just imagine what America's warmongering boneheads would be willing to do if America's avowed enemies were trying to gain a foothold in territories that literally touch our southern or northern borders?

Again, if you're going to poke a bear (especially a mother bear), then don't be surprised if she tries to protect her cubs.
_______

EXCELLENT SEEDS! I wonder how it is that so many people don't get it.

You don't get it either. After the Holodomor, the Soviet occupation and Chernobyl (and the suppression in Tsarist times Phyllo already mentioned), wouldn't you want to join NATO too, to keep the Russians out? Only a murderer like Putin would say that Ukraine is Russia's cub.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 20, 2025 9:28 pm That is all very nice AI, but what is the most pertaining cause of the present-day crisis? It is the American war machine wanting to occupy Ukraine on Russia's border. Something it promised never to do to get Russia to agree to the unification of Germany. Since 1990 it has been never-ending lies and an ever encroachment of Russia's border. How would America react if Russia or China set up in Canada on the American border? Come on guys, it's not brain surgery.

No, the most pertaining cause is Russia's long-term behaviour. What you say sounds more like Russian propaganda. NATO didn't really have to encroach in Middle-Eastern Europe, countries there wanted to join NATO themselves. And some verbal promise between enemies doesn't count for much, there is no official treaty saying that NATO won't be expanded East. Russia did break official treaties with its invasions of Ukraine though.

If the Ukrainians and the Russians were as close brothers as you imagine them to be, then the meddling of US agents and/or Western deep state agents in Ukraine couldn't have turned the country like that.

Russia's long-term behaviour is literally the primary cause why it's getting surrounded by NATO.

You are extremely naive, which isn't unusual for any given citizen of one's home country, like inheriting one's religion of place. America has been the most violent country in the world since 1950. You can easily fact-check. It's an American speciality to overthrow foreign governments that don't do as they are told, through murder and mayhem. Africa and South America are prime examples, don't get me started on the Middle East. If people truly desired a world of cooperation rather than violent colonisation. They would see the necessity of abandoning the Western tradition of violent colonisation, and the American empire's desire for a unipolar world under its rule. You're telling me nothing new in stating the fact that the word of the American government isn't worth the toilet paper it isn't written upon. Since the end of World War two, America has been a cruel master. The rise of almost half the world's population against it should give one cause to ponder. If America were evaluated on a human level, it would be categorised as a psychopath of the most violent kind. All the bad guys the West has identified in the East are their former evil subjects of their colonization and murderous abuse. The BRICS federation of nations is now ten nations strong, with twenty-two nations awaiting their membership. China has already surpassed the United States as the largest economy in the world, and is far ahead of America in the world of technology. The BRICS federation of nations is based upon the realization that the world is interrelated and interdependent, and the sanest path to social evolution is cooperation rather than dictatorship through the American empire. The American empire is in decline, and it will be a multipolar world if the psychopathic American empire does not drag us all into the dark abyss of nuclear destruction. NATO was created as a defensive organization only to become the war machine of the American empire, and they have identified bad guys, their former colonies in the East.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 26, 2025 10:01 am

Atla wrote: ↑Wed Mar 26, 2025 4:20 am

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 24, 2025 11:55 pm

EXCELLENT SEEDS! I wonder how it is that so many people don't get it.

You don't get it either. After the Holodomor, the Soviet occupation and Chernobyl (and the suppression in Tsarist times Phyllo already mentioned), wouldn't you want to join NATO too, to keep the Russians out? Only a murderer like Putin would say that Ukraine is Russia's cub.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 20, 2025 9:28 pm That is all very nice AI, but what is the most pertaining cause of the present-day crisis? It is the American war machine wanting to occupy Ukraine on Russia's border. Something it promised never to do to get Russia to agree to the unification of Germany. Since 1990 it has been never-ending lies and an ever encroachment of Russia's border. How would America react if Russia or China set up in Canada on the American border? Come on guys, it's not brain surgery.

No, the most pertaining cause is Russia's long-term behaviour. What you say sounds more like Russian propaganda. NATO didn't really have to encroach in Middle-Eastern Europe, countries there wanted to join NATO themselves. And some verbal promise between enemies doesn't count for much, there is no official treaty saying that NATO won't be expanded East. Russia did break official treaties with its invasions of Ukraine though.

If the Ukrainians and the Russians were as close brothers as you imagine them to be, then the meddling of US agents and/or Western deep state agents in Ukraine couldn't have turned the country like that.

Russia's long-term behaviour is literally the primary cause why it's getting surrounded by NATO.

You are extremely naive, which isn't unusual for any given citizen of one's home country, like inheriting one's religion of place. America has been the most violent country in the world since 1950. You can easily fact-check. It's an American speciality to overthrow foreign governments that don't do as they are told, through murder and mayhem. Africa and South America are prime examples, don't get me started on the Middle East. If people truly desired a world of cooperation rather than violent colonisation. They would see the necessity of abandoning the Western tradition of violent colonisation, and the American empire's desire for a unipolar world under its rule. You're telling me nothing new in stating the fact that the word of the American government isn't worth the toilet paper it isn't written upon. Since the end of World War two, America has been a cruel master. The rise of almost half the world's population against it should give one cause to ponder. If America were evaluated on a human level, it would be categorised as a psychopath of the most violent kind. All the bad guys the West has identified in the East are their former evil subjects of their colonization and murderous abuse. The BRICS federation of nations is now ten nations strong, with twenty-two nations awaiting their membership. China has already surpassed the United States as the largest economy in the world, and is far ahead of America in the world of technology. The BRICS federation of nations is based upon the realization that the world is interrelated and interdependent, and the sanest path to social evolution is cooperation rather than dictatorship through the American empire. The American empire is in decline, and it will be a multipolar world if the psychopathic American empire does not drag us all into the dark abyss of nuclear destruction. NATO was created as a defensive organization only to become the war machine of the American empire, and they have identified bad guys, their former colonies in the East.

That didn't contradict what I said. You're pretty naive and brainwashed if you think that between the US and Russia, the US still isn't the lesser evil. Russia is still far more psychopathic than the US. Also, when you look at violence, also include the Soviet occupation of entire countries.

Btw China isn't the largest economy in the world and obviously isn't "far ahead" of the US in technology either.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 26, 2025 10:01 am You are extremely naive, which isn't unusual for any given citizen of one's home country, like inheriting one's religion of place. America has been the most violent country in the world since 1950. You can easily fact-check. It's an American speciality to overthrow foreign governments that don't do as they are told, through murder and mayhem. Africa and South America are prime examples, don't get me started on the Middle East. If people truly desired a world of cooperation rather than violent colonisation. They would see the necessity of abandoning the Western tradition of violent colonisation, and the American empire's desire for a unipolar world under its rule. You're telling me nothing new in stating the fact that the word of the American government isn't worth the toilet paper it isn't written upon. Since the end of World War two, America has been a cruel master. The rise of almost half the world's population against it should give one cause to ponder. If America were evaluated on a human level, it would be categorised as a psychopath of the most violent kind. All the bad guys the West has identified in the East are their former evil subjects of their colonization and murderous abuse. The BRICS federation of nations is now ten nations strong, with twenty-two nations awaiting their membership. China has already surpassed the United States as the largest economy in the world, and is far ahead of America in the world of technology. The BRICS federation of nations is based upon the realization that the world is interrelated and interdependent, and the sanest path to social evolution is cooperation rather than dictatorship through the American empire. The American empire is in decline, and it will be a multipolar world if the psychopathic American empire does not drag us all into the dark abyss of nuclear destruction. NATO was created as a defensive organization only to become the war machine of the American empire, and they have identified bad guys, their former colonies in the East.

This comment interests me.

The world, from the earliest days, and every important, relevant culture that has existed, gained its position and wealth through conquest. Indeed Europe — the heart of Europe with few exceptions — exists because of the Roman conquest. The imposed will of the domineering power on the “uncivilized”, the unruly. Rulership as the path toward a civilized reality.

Anyone who has absorbed the Chomskian analysis has internalized that dark, guilty truth: the US dominated the entire postwar world. It controlled the seas. It established and domineered a world-system. From one perspective, a glorious attainment. Necessarily violent but, let’s say, reasonably so. Far far less that some other contending powers.

From a Nietzschean perspective? Simply put part of an eternal struggle rather unlikely to change. But here is the interesting factor: now, internally, in a mood, the political entity itself turns against itself.

Ever read In The Penal Colony? A masterful play of irony on Genealogy of Morals. The punished turns on the punisher. The tattoo machine is turned around : the resentful takes the reins of power. The “general” comes under the sway of his “womenfolk”.

It is part of current discourse: If “they” had not killed Kennedy — who in a psychological melodrama, perhaps a fable, was working to create a peaceful world (“”) — we would be living the utopian dream right now.

The nation turns against itself. It cannot bear itself. It cannot bear power. It disbelieves itself. It doesn’t know what to believe.

But energy must be directed somewhere. So it dismantles itself. I merely point this out.

I will join with that great & noble warrior manchild Atla!! I will sharpen my sword and polish my shield !

Sissies! Pussies! Weaklings! Englishmen!

Hi-ho! To the battlements we go!

Thank GOD that the British formed the empire of the world at the time and not the Spanish or Portuguese.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 26, 2025 10:01 am

Atla wrote: ↑Wed Mar 26, 2025 4:20 am

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 24, 2025 11:55 pm
EXCELLENT SEEDS! I wonder how it is that so many people don't get it.

You don't get it either. After the Holodomor, the Soviet occupation and Chernobyl (and the suppression in Tsarist times Phyllo already mentioned), wouldn't you want to join NATO too, to keep the Russians out? Only a murderer like Putin would say that Ukraine is Russia's cub.

First of all, to clear up Atla's misinterpretation of my comment about "mother bear" Russia wanting to protect her cubs, I was referring to the metaphorical "cubs" within her present borders, not to Ukraine being one of her "cubs."

Atla wrote: ↑Wed Mar 26, 2025 4:20 am

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 20, 2025 9:28 pm That is all very nice AI, but what is the most pertaining cause of the present-day crisis? It is the American war machine wanting to occupy Ukraine on Russia's border. Something it promised never to do to get Russia to agree to the unification of Germany. Since 1990 it has been never-ending lies and an ever encroachment of Russia's border. How would America react if Russia or China set up in Canada on the American border? Come on guys, it's not brain surgery.

No, the most pertaining cause is Russia's long-term behaviour. What you say sounds more like Russian propaganda. NATO didn't really have to encroach in Middle-Eastern Europe, countries there wanted to join NATO themselves. And some verbal promise between enemies doesn't count for much, there is no official treaty saying that NATO won't be expanded East. Russia did break official treaties with its invasions of Ukraine though.

If the Ukrainians and the Russians were as close brothers as you imagine them to be, then the meddling of US agents and/or Western deep state agents in Ukraine couldn't have turned the country like that.

Russia's long-term behaviour is literally the primary cause why it's getting surrounded by NATO.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 26, 2025 10:01 am You are extremely naive, which isn't unusual for any given citizen of one's home country, like inheriting one's religion of place. America has been the most violent country in the world since 1950. You can easily fact-check. It's an American speciality to overthrow foreign governments that don't do as they are told, through murder and mayhem. Africa and South America are prime examples, don't get me started on the Middle East. If people truly desired a world of cooperation rather than violent colonisation. They would see the necessity of abandoning the Western tradition of violent colonisation, and the American empire's desire for a unipolar world under its rule.

Precisely (especially that bolded part).

And just to be clear, I'm not defending Russia (Putin) in any way, I'm simply offering possible reasons as to why a cornered animal might respond with an aggressive defense of itself.

Popeye1945, take notice of how casually Atla mentions something like this,...

If the Ukrainians and the Russians were as close brothers as you imagine them to be, then the meddling of US agents and/or Western deep state agents in Ukraine couldn't have turned the country like that.

...and then wonders why Russia might want to preemptively defend itself against the encroachment of "Western deep state agents" who wish to see Russia's demise.

The obliviousness is staggering.
_______

seeds wrote: ↑Wed Mar 26, 2025 6:13 pm

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 26, 2025 10:01 am

Atla wrote: ↑Wed Mar 26, 2025 4:20 am

You don't get it either. After the Holodomor, the Soviet occupation and Chernobyl (and the suppression in Tsarist times Phyllo already mentioned), wouldn't you want to join NATO too, to keep the Russians out? Only a murderer like Putin would say that Ukraine is Russia's cub.

First of all, to clear up Atla's misinterpretation of my comment about "mother bear" Russia wanting to protect her cubs, I was referring to the metaphorical "cubs" within her present borders, not to Ukraine being one of her "cubs."

Atla wrote: ↑Wed Mar 26, 2025 4:20 am

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 20, 2025 9:28 pm That is all very nice AI, but what is the most pertaining cause of the present-day crisis? It is the American war machine wanting to occupy Ukraine on Russia's border. Something it promised never to do to get Russia to agree to the unification of Germany. Since 1990 it has been never-ending lies and an ever encroachment of Russia's border. How would America react if Russia or China set up in Canada on the American border? Come on guys, it's not brain surgery.

No, the most pertaining cause is Russia's long-term behaviour. What you say sounds more like Russian propaganda. NATO didn't really have to encroach in Middle-Eastern Europe, countries there wanted to join NATO themselves. And some verbal promise between enemies doesn't count for much, there is no official treaty saying that NATO won't be expanded East. Russia did break official treaties with its invasions of Ukraine though.

If the Ukrainians and the Russians were as close brothers as you imagine them to be, then the meddling of US agents and/or Western deep state agents in Ukraine couldn't have turned the country like that.

Russia's long-term behaviour is literally the primary cause why it's getting surrounded by NATO.

popeye1945 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 26, 2025 10:01 am You are extremely naive, which isn't unusual for any given citizen of one's home country, like inheriting one's religion of place. America has been the most violent country in the world since 1950. You can easily fact-check. It's an American speciality to overthrow foreign governments that don't do as they are told, through murder and mayhem. Africa and South America are prime examples, don't get me started on the Middle East. If people truly desired a world of cooperation rather than violent colonisation. They would see the necessity of abandoning the Western tradition of violent colonisation, and the American empire's desire for a unipolar world under its rule.

Precisely (especially that bolded part).

And just to be clear, I'm not defending Russia (Putin) in any way, I'm simply offering possible reasons as to why a cornered animal might respond with an aggressive defense of itself.

Popeye1945, take notice of how casually Atla mentions something like this,...

If the Ukrainians and the Russians were as close brothers as you imagine them to be, then the meddling of US agents and/or Western deep state agents in Ukraine couldn't have turned the country like that.

...and then wonders why Russia might want to preemptively defend itself against the encroachment of "Western deep state agents" who wish to see Russia's demise.

The obliviousness is staggering.
_______

Do you actually think that I'm oblivious to the fact that Russia doesn't want enemy nukes on its borders? I thought you were smarter than that.

I used to be a pretty adamant Zionist. And my reasoning was clear, but troubling (and troubled). I knew of course that the re-conquest of Judea was in essence criminal.

That you cannot just walk back into a land where “you” had veritable history — that is, those who joined Judaism during the Diaspora; those who became “the Jewish people” by assimilation into it, and “identified” as Jews — and simply take it over.

But then really — why not?

All the elaborate, strained rhetoric to assemble a justification amounted to little more than excuses for a blatant and obvious land-grab. Nothing could justify it except carrying it off successfully.

But why bother with justifications?

And there is the bottom-line truth : power made a move. And strategic genius won the day. It seemed to me that I need not create false attempts to justify the unjustifiable. And with that stance — cynical or realist? — I felt that I was describing the world — the world as it is. And likely as it will remain.

Israel Am Chai as the mantra goes— it is a mantra: an acknowledgement of intention, self-affirming power, and a will that operates not just for a day but for millennia.

Rome destroyed Carthage and composted the remains. Who weeps today for Carthage? Oh look! All those pretty flowers!

Life needs nutriments.

The actual issue, then, is understood to be how to get along knowing that this is actually how things work in the world.

It’s really quite odd: it became a righteous mode to hate South African apartheid and to see the creators of that nation as vile oppressors. And to hold on to that arrangement required violence. Then, righteous and “moral” sentiments (I assume genuine) got hold of people, and even got hold of progressive South Africans, and they “abolished Apartheid”. The world celebrated. And in short order (if my sources are right) the state is tending toward ruin.

This will sound really horrid but … the chimps took over the Zoo. Everyone sees this but no one will actually see it.

Ownership turned against itself. It hated itself. It couldn’t bear the moral pressure set against holding to strict power principles. More or less of the same sort that Israel is dealing with.

In fact, I don’t know how to solve the Power Principle Dynamic.

Who weeps today for Carthage?

*raises hand*

I also weep for the Minoans. Best civilization ever, conquered in the end by the primitive Mycenaeans.

Atla wrote: ↑Wed Mar 26, 2025 7:23 pm

Who weeps today for Carthage?

*raises hand*

Such hypocrisy!

Did you weep when they stole P’nut and murdered him?! Did you?!

You don’t weep for Carthage, Atla. But you do sob. God knows for what.

Also: see that edit note on my last post? I do not like edit lines!

Please, PM me before you post. I was still working on my post. This makes me really angry .

Cry Freedom

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Wed Mar 26, 2025 7:25 pm

Atla wrote: ↑Wed Mar 26, 2025 7:23 pm

Who weeps today for Carthage?

*raises hand*

Such hypocrisy!

Did you weep when they stole P’nut and murdered him?! Did you?!

You don’t weep for Carthage, Atla. But you do sob. God knows for what.

Also: see that edit note on my last post? I do not like edit lines!

Please, PM me before you post. I was still working on my post.

Hey you did it to my comment too.

I suppose the difference between us is that I was never a Zionist to begin with, especially not a pretty adamant one.