Philosophy Now Forum

Commonsense wrote:

What do you mean by authenticated? Are all the stories non-fiction?

The field of archaeology has done much to prove the Bible's record true, also some of the prophecies can determine the truthfulness of the Bible by the fulfillment of these. 

The authors, from many walks of life and varying degrees of education and nobility, most of whom never knew each other or lived within each other's lifespan, were only able to write so cohesively through inspiration.  An objective view of the bible can show us that indeed the Bible's composition is unique and inspired.  

Let's have a look at some of the historians. 

Tacitus, the Roman historian who lived AD 115, speaks about Nero's persecution of the Christians of the year AD 46. Then, he says, "Christus, from whom their name is derived, was executed at the hands of the procurator Pontius Pilate in the reign of Tiberius." 

So there's an extra-Biblical source, which says when these things happened. 

And the Talmud, which is the Jewish traditions, said, "on the eve of the Passover they hanged Jeshu of Nazareth." So there are sources outside the Scriptures, which confirm the very issue.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 7:30 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 4:38 am

Lacewing wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 4:19 am
Oh, do share your method!

It's called frugality. It's less wasteful and more economical on resources. If someone needs exotic thrills to make life interesting then they have more luxury than most.

I'm not talking about financial travel tips. I'm asking about your method for 'feeling at peace and harmony with your surroundings', as you say? Also, how do you 'make life interesting', as you say? You're knocking someone for travelling as if you know how to accomplish all of this right where you are, which doesn't match all of your recent posts about hating life, right?

There are plenty of happy people out there who don't do much in the way of exotic travel and who aren't plagued by mental health issues. Therefore, it doesn't appear to me that exotic travel is necessary for happiness.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 4:23 am

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 4:04 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 2:58 am Yeah for the jet set class who can cruise the Bahamas, hang out at Club Med or trek the Himalayas or whatnot.

You might be wrong about the fellow in that video. He has $1,500 of gear (minus camera gear and drone), more or less, and surely spent quite little camping. All his gear in ‘Merican so i assume he is. A cheaper flight from NYC to Lisbon is not that much.

Yes, he’s a YouTuber and probably has some sponsors and Patreon donors but you see my point.

Fact is it is pretty cheap to do what he does wherever one is. Perhaps not quite as spectacular as Madeira ….

A person camping ‘correctly’ can minimize impact to very little.

I bikepack in my region and often stay in $12 hotels as a base for outings. True, such cheap accommodations are not found up north. But certainly there are cheaper options.

Aren’t there natural areas close to where you live?

There are local parks, waterways, arts and recreational activities for those who want escape from their usual habitat.

Not for most people there aren't!

Belinda wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 12:00 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 4:23 am

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 4:04 am
You might be wrong about the fellow in that video. He has $1,500 of gear (minus camera gear and drone), more or less, and surely spent quite little camping. All his gear in ‘Merican so i assume he is. A cheaper flight from NYC to Lisbon is not that much.

Yes, he’s a YouTuber and probably has some sponsors and Patreon donors but you see my point.

Fact is it is pretty cheap to do what he does wherever one is. Perhaps not quite as spectacular as Madeira ….

A person camping ‘correctly’ can minimize impact to very little.

I bikepack in my region and often stay in $12 hotels as a base for outings. True, such cheap accommodations are not found up north. But certainly there are cheaper options.

Aren’t there natural areas close to where you live?

There are local parks, waterways, arts and recreational activities for those who want escape from their usual habitat.

Not for most people there aren't!

Exactly.

reasonvemotion wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 7:47 am Commonsense wrote:

What do you mean by authenticated? Are all the stories non-fiction?

The field of archaeology has done much to prove the Bible's record true, also some of the prophecies can determine the truthfulness of the Bible by the fulfillment of these. 

The authors, from many walks of life and varying degrees of education and nobility, most of whom never knew each other or lived within each other's lifespan, were only able to write so cohesively through inspiration.  An objective view of the bible can show us that indeed the Bible's composition is unique and inspired.  

Let's have a look at some of the historians. 

Tacitus, the Roman historian who lived AD 115, speaks about Nero's persecution of the Christians of the year AD 46. Then, he says, "Christus, from whom their name is derived, was executed at the hands of the procurator Pontius Pilate in the reign of Tiberius." 

So there's an extra-Biblical source, which says when these things happened. 

And the Talmud, which is the Jewish traditions, said, "on the eve of the Passover they hanged Jeshu of Nazareth." So there are sources outside the Scriptures, which confirm the very issue.

Ah. So by authenticated you mean confirmed by separate historical account or archeological finding.

Are there any narratives that are as yet awaiting authentication?

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 8:44 am Therefore, it doesn't appear to me that exotic travel is necessary for happiness.

Well, of course it's not necessary... but can you appreciate that such an opportunity and experience exists for someone who gets/wants to do that? It didn't look like he was travelling lavishly... and he produced something beautiful from it to share.

Most things people do or long for aren't necessary for happiness, right?

Christ was arguably the most compassionate human being who ever existed. I don't believe he was the God who created this universe, though. Christ would never have created a universe like this.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 5:41 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 8:44 am Therefore, it doesn't appear to me that exotic travel is necessary for happiness.

Well, of course it's not necessary... but can you appreciate that such an opportunity and experience exists for someone who gets/wants to do that? It didn't look like he was travelling lavishly... and he produced something beautiful from it to share.

Most things people do or long for aren't necessary for happiness, right?

He produced a dream for others to have, sure.

commonsense wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 5:19 pm

reasonvemotion wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 7:47 am Commonsense wrote:

What do you mean by authenticated? Are all the stories non-fiction?

The field of archaeology has done much to prove the Bible's record true, also some of the prophecies can determine the truthfulness of the Bible by the fulfillment of these. 

The authors, from many walks of life and varying degrees of education and nobility, most of whom never knew each other or lived within each other's lifespan, were only able to write so cohesively through inspiration.  An objective view of the bible can show us that indeed the Bible's composition is unique and inspired.  

Let's have a look at some of the historians. 

Tacitus, the Roman historian who lived AD 115, speaks about Nero's persecution of the Christians of the year AD 46. Then, he says, "Christus, from whom their name is derived, was executed at the hands of the procurator Pontius Pilate in the reign of Tiberius." 

So there's an extra-Biblical source, which says when these things happened. 

And the Talmud, which is the Jewish traditions, said, "on the eve of the Passover they hanged Jeshu of Nazareth." So there are sources outside the Scriptures, which confirm the very issue.

Ah. So by authenticated you mean confirmed by separate historical account or archeological finding.

Are there any narratives that are as yet awaiting authentication?

I suggest that the world is still awaiting the authentication of the narrative of the alleged "fall of mankind" resulting from the phantasmagorical situation of a talking snake...

(which just so happened to be the "shape-shifted" form of the most powerful [silver-tongued] demon in all of reality)

..."devilishly" persuading the alleged "first" two humans to eat a forbidden fruit from a forbidden tree.

Is there any way to authenticate the veracity of that particular bucket of codswallop?
_______

seeds wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 6:13 pm

commonsense wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 5:19 pm
Are there any narratives that are as yet awaiting authentication?

I suggest that the world is still awaiting the authentication of the narrative of the alleged "fall of mankind" resulting from the phantasmagorical situation of a talking snake...

(which just so happened to be the "shape-shifted" form of the most powerful [silver-tongued] demon in all of reality)

..."devilishly" persuading the alleged "first" two humans to eat a forbidden fruit from a forbidden tree.

Is there any way to authenticate the veracity of that particular bucket of codswallop?

Thanks for answering my questions.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 5:42 pm Christ was arguably the most compassionate human being who ever existed. I don't believe he was the God who created this universe, though. Christ would never have created a universe like this.

What interests me is what is implied here in the contrast between the world as it really is, and the imposed world, or the ideal world, of the Christian visualization.

Recently I have been reading David Attenborough's The Life of Birds. I have some background in natural history and ecology but up till now had not read detailed accounts of bird's survival strategies, mating and roosting habits, etc. What is mind-boggling is to consider the intense struggles in the lives of biological entities in this world. The struggle of life is so strange, so brutal, that to really understand life here is a sobering undertaking.

Humankind, in fact, arose in and out of this context. As I sometimes say we are 'subsumed' into that biological world.

Strangely, if we see ourselves -- human beings, human animals, human culture -- as creatures of the biological context, what we call immorality and also *sin* is simply part of the context of life.

Theft of resources for example, or taking over a territory. There is absolutely no 'morality' in nature. Surely we all know this but yet it remains a dim perception I think.

I was struck by what Lacewing said -- that nature is the true temple or something to that effect. The reason this is a strange statement to examine is that, if it is true, what is considered a 'temple' or even as 'sacred' is a world that is, from top to bottom, terrifying and terrible. Life consumes life in a brutal -- though I agree beautiful -- cycle that has existed from the beginning and will never end (until biological life ends).

What Christianity is, again when examined (and this is so for all religious conceptions) is an 'imposition' on and against nature, and by that I mean 'reality'. There is no 'Christian ethic' in nature. Nor will there ever be such an ethic. If a creature did act, or could act, in accord with such (human, imposed) ethics that creature would be consumed.

The closer to nature then, the closer to *reality*, and the farther away from unreal impositions.

Gary's rebellion seems to be 'against the nature of reality'. How could such a strange and terrifying biological and material world as our is have been 'designed' or to put it more precisely willed or intended?

If there is a 'god' what sort of a being is this? And yet nature in all its complexity is thoroughly and unreally infused with 'design intelligence'. What *thinks all this up*? How does chaos form itself into unbelievable, but unbelievably weird order? What design idea brings all of this into manifestation?

And then what purpose could the sort of awareness that we human beings have serve? Take Gary's 'lament' (or opposition). The more awareness of the way things really are here, and the rules that function here, the more pain in the realization that these conditions are immutable.

Strangely, this explains the desire or the need to become 'numb' or to use intoxicants (of all sorts and varieties) to cover over the harsh realization.

I agree that Christ was compassionate. The only caveat is that he (inadvertently) crushed the skulls of numerous money-changers when he went on that famous rampage. This did not get reported in the Gospel. One of the men -- a shark I admit, a real dirty dealer -- was reduced to the level of mental retardation when Jesus whacked his avaricious head with that hardwood stick! It literally bashed in his skull. He become a drooling retard and his mother had to feed him gruel and change his soiled clothing for the rest of his life.

It is just part of the way things are here. Strange but true.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 5:42 pm Christ was arguably the most compassionate human being who ever existed. I don't believe he was the God who created this universe, though. Christ would never have created a universe like this.

Not really. His compassion was limited to his people; it was in effect, a Jewish compassion, by no means ecumenical. The latter is a Pauline creation reversing the rather tribalistic one of Jesus and his apostles. If Christ could have created a universe, he would have made sure there were a lot of Jews, few Gentiles and no Romans in it.

Dubious wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 8:26 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 5:42 pm Christ was arguably the most compassionate human being who ever existed. I don't believe he was the God who created this universe, though. Christ would never have created a universe like this.

Not really. His compassion was limited to his people; it was in effect, a Jewish compassion, by no means ecumenical. The latter is a Pauline creation reversing the rather tribalistic one of Jesus and his apostles. If Christ could have created a universe, he would have made sure there were a lot of Jews, few Gentiles and no Romans in it.

That's arguably true also, I suppose. The image of Christ in the hospital setting as the compassionate healer is probably not the whole picture that should necessarily also include all the circumstances that occur in this world to put human beings in the hospital to begin with.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 12:46 am

Dubious wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 8:26 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 5:42 pm Christ was arguably the most compassionate human being who ever existed. I don't believe he was the God who created this universe, though. Christ would never have created a universe like this.

Not really. His compassion was limited to his people; it was in effect, a Jewish compassion, by no means ecumenical. The latter is a Pauline creation reversing the rather tribalistic one of Jesus and his apostles. If Christ could have created a universe, he would have made sure there were a lot of Jews, few Gentiles and no Romans in it.

That's arguably true also, I suppose. The image of Christ in the hospital setting as the compassionate healer is probably not the whole picture that should necessarily also include all the circumstances that occur in this world to put human beings in the hospital to begin with.