Some dolt who claims to be an atheist or agnostic posted a video on youtube saying that "if the guy on that show had insulted Muslims it would be disapproved of." That's BS. If it were Sam Harris up there denouncing Islam, then people would be (understandably) gobbling up his words, including a lot of Christians. However, when Christians get harassed by some guy who makes an inappropriate remark about Jesus, this "atheist or agnostic" or whatever he prefers to call himself get's upset, and comes running to their rescue.
The guy who made the crack is undoubtedly someone that Christians disapprove of. He's probably put up with a lot of crap from Christians most of his life. You don't think that's a reason for him to respond in kind? Ideally, it's great if we don't respond like that, but it's not without reason that Christians get that from people whom they consider "wicked" and whatnot. I mean if the guy who made the Jesus joke was guilty of actually causing bodily harm to someone or rape, then lock him up. But if he's just pushing back against people who disapprove of his sex life, then what is anyone supposed to do? Let Christians come forward and explain why it is that they torment people who don't have sex the way they think they should. If they can come up with solid evidence that God hates gays or whatever any more than he seems to maybe hate the rest of us, then most of us should maybe back the torment of gays for all I know.
Last edited by Gary Childress on Fri Mar 03, 2023 6:20 am, edited 4 times in total.
promethean75 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 5:20 am
"if there's a God, then let me know."
we cannot do this sir, for two reasons. we cannot produce any rational proof and revelatory knowledge (if it existed) would be dubious. so, I can't argue that god exists and i can't be sure any experiences i may have had were divine (contact with god, angels, whatever) and without a natural explanation.
EXACTLY!!! However, my words are directed at all the faith fanatics out there, not my fellow agnostics. If Christians want to say I'm "wicked" because I like to pull the goalie once in a while, then should I just let them step all over me? I didn't start this rant until after I tried going to church and found out just how much the church saddles people like me with shame and guilt.
promethean75 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 5:20 am
"if there's a God, then let me know."
we cannot do this sir, for two reasons. we cannot produce any rational proof and revelatory knowledge (if it existed) would be dubious. so, I can't argue that god exists and i can't be sure any experiences i may have had were divine (contact with god, angels, whatever) and without a natural explanation.
EXACTLY!!! However, my words are directed at all the faith fanatics out there, not my fellow agnostics. If Christians want to say I'm "wicked" because I like to pull the goalie once in a while, then should I just let them step all over me? I didn't start this rant until after I tried going to church and found out just how much the church saddles people like me with shame and guilt.
Guilt is an intrinsic part of social control by means of religion. I am sorry your only experience of church going has been that sort of establishment church. Jesus himself was opposed to priests who made dishonest peace with the Romans.
Some churches regard Goodness as a process of personal and cultural creation which includes honest science. The Universal Unitarian church would be a better home for you.
Belinda wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 12:13 pm
The Universal Unitarian church would be a better home for you.
That's probably a good recommendation. There's one about 45 minutes to an hour away from me. If I ever feel the need to burn through a bunch of fossil fuel in order to get there, I'll have that option, I guess.
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 3:59 pm
...how will I know if it's God or not?
You will.
So many questions, Gary...but so far, no effort on your side, it would seem. For it hasn't even been long enough for you to try the experiment even once. So I can only assume you've spent far more energy in fending off the test that you can possibly have invested in trying it.
One can invent all kinds of objections indefinitely. But you know what you ought to be doing, if you're serious.
Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 6:53 pm
I, too, usually like what Penn Jillette has to say about religion. I can't quite see how he can be a God hater, though, when he doesn't believe there is a God.
That's one of the ironies of many Atheists: that it's possible to express hatred for God by choosing to disbelieve in Him. In other words, not so much to disbelieve genuinely, but rather to invest one's energies in "punishing" God by refusing to believe in Him.
You may say, "That's incoherent." And it is. But that's Atheism for you.
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 3:59 pm
...how will I know if it's God or not?
You will.
So many questions, Gary...but so far, no effort on your side, it would seem. For it hasn't even been long enough for you to try the experiment even once. So I can only assume you've spent far more energy in fending off the test that you can possibly have invested in trying it.
One can invent all kinds of objections indefinitely. But you know what you ought to be doing, if you're serious.
OK. If I talk to God and he tells me it's OK to masturbate, then maybe I'll give Christianity some more consideration. No guarantees though. Still don't trust that guy a whole lot (whoever's been communicating with the Abrahamic peoples).
Harbal wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 6:53 pm
I, too, usually like what Penn Jillette has to say about religion. I can't quite see how he can be a God hater, though, when he doesn't believe there is a God.
That's one of the ironies of many Atheists: that it's possible to express hatred for God by choosing to disbelieve in Him. In other words, not so much to disbelieve genuinely, but rather to invest one's energies in "punishing" God by refusing to believe in Him.
You may say, "That's incoherent." And it is. But that's Atheism for you.
Well, I mean if God is some crotchety old jerk like Archie Bunker (or whatever, as portrayed by the Bible), then is it any wonder people should dislike him?
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 4:33 pm
That's one of the ironies of many Atheists: that it's possible to express hatred for God by choosing to disbelieve in Him. In other words, not so much to disbelieve genuinely, but rather to invest one's energies in "punishing" God by refusing to believe in Him.
You may say, "That's incoherent." And it is. But that's Atheism for you.
I would call it more foolhardy than incoherent. To believe that the God of the Bible exists, and attempt to punish him, would not only be an act of supreme stupidity, but also one of incredible bravery. I am in the fortunate position of being neither stupid nor brave, which means I can hurl as much abuse at God as I like without any fear of his existence.
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2023 3:59 pm
...how will I know if it's God or not?
You will.
So many questions, Gary...but so far, no effort on your side, it would seem. For it hasn't even been long enough for you to try the experiment even once. So I can only assume you've spent far more energy in fending off the test that you can possibly have invested in trying it.
One can invent all kinds of objections indefinitely. But you know what you ought to be doing, if you're serious.
OK. If I talk to God and he tells me ...
No provisos. No exclusions. No excuses. You talk sincerely, giving Him at least as much respect as you give yourself, or you don't talk at all. Those are the rules. Anybody else would be the same: they don't want to talk with somebody who's just playing games.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 4:33 pm
That's one of the ironies of many Atheists: that it's possible to express hatred for God by choosing to disbelieve in Him. In other words, not so much to disbelieve genuinely, but rather to invest one's energies in "punishing" God by refusing to believe in Him.
You may say, "That's incoherent." And it is. But that's Atheism for you.
I would call it more foolhardy than incoherent.
It is indeed.
To believe that the God of the Bible exists, and attempt to punish him, would not only be an act of supreme stupidity, but also one of incredible bravery.
That is quite true...though the word "bravery" is usually reserved for people who are doing something at least potentially admirable. So I'd use the word "audacity." Or maybe "temerity." But "stupidity" works, as does "self-destructiveness."
"Do not be deceived; God is not mocked. Whatever a man sows, that he shall also reap."
To believe that the God of the Bible exists, and attempt to punish him, would not only be an act of supreme stupidity, but also one of incredible bravery.
That is quite true...though the word "bravery" is usually reserved for people who are doing something at least potentially admirable. So I'd use the word "audacity." Or maybe "temerity." But "stupidity" works, as does "self-destructiveness."
"Do not be deceived; God is not mocked. Whatever a man sows, that he shall also reap."
I read that somewhere.
Well, well, well, if it isn't God, the ultimate killjoy. So, let me get this straight, God created the whole universe, including mosquitoes, and now he's threatening us with some cosmic punishment if we dare to mock him? Talk about fragile ego. And don't even get me started on that whole "reaping what you sow" thing. Sounds like a threat straight out of a bad mafia movie. "Hey, nice life you got there. Shame if something happened to it." Honestly, God, take a chill pill and learn to take a joke. Life's too short to be so uptight all the time.
So many questions, Gary...but so far, no effort on your side, it would seem. For it hasn't even been long enough for you to try the experiment even once. So I can only assume you've spent far more energy in fending off the test that you can possibly have invested in trying it.
One can invent all kinds of objections indefinitely. But you know what you ought to be doing, if you're serious.
OK. If I talk to God and he tells me ...
No provisos. No exclusions. No excuses. You talk sincerely, giving Him at least as much respect as you give yourself, or you don't talk at all. Those are the rules. Anybody else would be the same: they don't want to talk with somebody who's just playing games.
I don't particularly respect myself right now after attending Christian Church and being saddled with guilt and shame for doing little more than harmlessly pleasuring myself using the "God given" means available to me. So I'm afraid if you want me to give him the same, then he's going to get the same feeling I have. Besides, who are YOU to tell me how to address God? Maybe I can address him however I'm fucking feeling like addressing him! Are you God's PR rep or his spokesperson or something?
