The Philosophy Discussion Forum

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2026 2:01 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2026 7:18 am What exactly is "spirituality"? Is it the belief in "spirits" and the "supernatural"? If so, then those are things that science cannot study. If anything can be known about such things, then it's not known through the means of the natural sciences.

Well, how is evolution "known," Gary? (Serious question: I'm not trying to reverse it on you. I'm asking you to think about the method by which you have come to believe in something you believe in.) For you will find it is exactly the same method by which the natural sciences also relate to the question of the existence of God.

Evolution, as a theory, is "known" through piecing together different experimental observations of the sciences (chemistry, physics, biology, geology, etc.) and trying to come up with an explanation for how the biological world works and why it works the way it does.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2026 11:10 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2026 2:01 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2026 7:18 am What exactly is "spirituality"? Is it the belief in "spirits" and the "supernatural"? If so, then those are things that science cannot study. If anything can be known about such things, then it's not known through the means of the natural sciences.

Well, how is evolution "known," Gary? (Serious question: I'm not trying to reverse it on you. I'm asking you to think about the method by which you have come to believe in something you believe in.) For you will find it is exactly the same method by which the natural sciences also relate to the question of the existence of God.

Evolution, as a theory, is "known" through piecing together different experimental observations of the sciences (chemistry, physics, biology, geology, etc.) and trying to come up with an explanation for how the biological world works and why it works the way it does.

Exactly, we’ll keep trying to come up with an explanation for the knowledge of the how the internal mechanisms of the biological world works. But no theory is absolute. All we can know is what we can measure with our finite limited knowledge which has no access to what’s actually going on in the absolute sense. We can know that standing on a piece of broken glass feels, we feel and know the ouch. But we don’t know how we know that.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2026 11:10 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2026 2:01 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2026 7:18 am What exactly is "spirituality"? Is it the belief in "spirits" and the "supernatural"? If so, then those are things that science cannot study. If anything can be known about such things, then it's not known through the means of the natural sciences.

Well, how is evolution "known," Gary? (Serious question: I'm not trying to reverse it on you. I'm asking you to think about the method by which you have come to believe in something you believe in.) For you will find it is exactly the same method by which the natural sciences also relate to the question of the existence of God.

Evolution, as a theory, is "known" through piecing together different experimental observations of the sciences (chemistry, physics, biology, geology, etc.) and trying to come up with an explanation for how the biological world works and why it works the way it does.

For scientists who believe in God, God is not a theory.
Scientists who believe in God are spiritual.

Fairy wrote: ↑Sat Jun 20, 2026 8:01 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2026 11:10 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2026 2:01 pm
Well, how is evolution "known," Gary? (Serious question: I'm not trying to reverse it on you. I'm asking you to think about the method by which you have come to believe in something you believe in.) For you will find it is exactly the same method by which the natural sciences also relate to the question of the existence of God.

Evolution, as a theory, is "known" through piecing together different experimental observations of the sciences (chemistry, physics, biology, geology, etc.) and trying to come up with an explanation for how the biological world works and why it works the way it does.

Exactly, we’ll keep trying to come up with an explanation for the knowledge of the how the internal mechanisms of the biological world works. But no theory is absolute. All we can know is what we can measure with our finite limited knowledge which has no access to what’s actually going on in the absolute sense. We can know that standing on a piece of broken glass feels, we feel and know the ouch. But we don’t know how we know that.

"All we can know is what we can measure with our finite limited knowledge which has no access to what’s actually going on in the absolute sense."

We can know through implications based on rationality.
Verification via human limitations is another matter.

For example, based on the ideas you presented here ...

Einstein noted that time exists so that everything doesn’t happen at once.
- God is beyond all limitations.
- God is beyond the limitations of time that Einstein noted.
- For God, everything is at once.
- Limitations of time include duration and chronology.
- Human understanding and explanations are bound by time, duration, and chronology.

- Because God did not name each creature of his creation,
- And because for God everything is at once,

- Mans’ dominion over critters not specifically mentioned in The Holy Bible includes dominion over dinosaurs ...
- ... a relationship of man and beast that defies mans’ limited apprehension bound by time,
- but agrees with the rational implications of no limitations.

Walker wrote: ↑Sat Jun 20, 2026 9:51 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2026 11:10 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2026 2:01 pm
Well, how is evolution "known," Gary? (Serious question: I'm not trying to reverse it on you. I'm asking you to think about the method by which you have come to believe in something you believe in.) For you will find it is exactly the same method by which the natural sciences also relate to the question of the existence of God.

Evolution, as a theory, is "known" through piecing together different experimental observations of the sciences (chemistry, physics, biology, geology, etc.) and trying to come up with an explanation for how the biological world works and why it works the way it does.

For scientists who believe in God, God is not a theory.
Scientists who believe in God are spiritual.

Well, what do you think, Walker? Did God produce this shithole?

Walker wrote: ↑Sat Jun 20, 2026 9:51 am
For scientists who believe in God, God is not a theory.
Scientists who believe in God are spiritual.

But it is misleading to put it that way

To the scientist, beliefs about the material world are "theories" based on observations of material reality subject to being disproved by other observations of material reality.

To the scientist (religious believer or not) religious beliefs are NOT subject to observations of material reality. No observation could disprove the existence of deity. Believers in religion are "spiritual" but the converse not necessarily true unless we take a VERY broad view of "religion".

Walker wrote: ↑Sat Jun 20, 2026 11:53 am - Mans’ dominion over critters not specifically mentioned in The Holy Bible includes dominion over dinosaurs ...

Absurd ideas.

What kind of mentality needs to feel/believe that it has dominion over anything? Including dinosaurs?

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Jun 20, 2026 2:15 pm

Walker wrote: ↑Sat Jun 20, 2026 9:51 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Fri Jun 19, 2026 11:10 pm

Evolution, as a theory, is "known" through piecing together different experimental observations of the sciences (chemistry, physics, biology, geology, etc.) and trying to come up with an explanation for how the biological world works and why it works the way it does.

For scientists who believe in God, God is not a theory.
Scientists who believe in God are spiritual.

Well, what do you think, Walker? Did God produce this shithole?

Your projection indicates shit for brains.

Since you introduced the subject of spirituality in this thread, I think that you should rationally explain how you separate spirituality from the rest of life, as you said you do.

Religious scientists might give you a clue ... glad to help.

Because you separate spirituality from life, do you think that folks who believe in God are only spiritual on Sundays?

Lacewing wrote: ↑Sat Jun 20, 2026 3:18 pm

Walker wrote: ↑Sat Jun 20, 2026 11:53 am - Mans’ dominion over critters not specifically mentioned in The Holy Bible includes dominion over dinosaurs ...

Absurd ideas.

What kind of mentality needs to feel/believe that it has dominion over anything? Including dinosaurs?

Christian mentality, which is considerably older and more experienced than your brief sojourn.

It's the Big Picture View, which of course may seem absurd to mundane thinking.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Sat Jun 20, 2026 3:18 pm

Walker wrote: ↑Sat Jun 20, 2026 11:53 am - Mans’ dominion over critters not specifically mentioned in The Holy Bible includes dominion over dinosaurs ...

Absurd ideas.

What kind of mentality needs to feel/believe that it has dominion over anything? Including dinosaurs?

the dominion of self-control is difficult enough at times...

-Imp

(continued)

The Big Picture is God with no limitations.

Doesn't get any bigger.

You should look beyond the end of your nose.

Walker wrote: ↑Sat Jun 20, 2026 3:29 pm

Lacewing wrote: ↑Sat Jun 20, 2026 3:18 pm

Walker wrote: ↑Sat Jun 20, 2026 11:53 am - Mans’ dominion over critters not specifically mentioned in The Holy Bible includes dominion over dinosaurs ...

Absurd ideas.

What kind of mentality needs to feel/believe that it has dominion over anything? Including dinosaurs?

Christian mentality, which is considerably older and more experienced than your brief sojourn.

Being proud of living by archaic ideas isn't very wise. It's fearful and foolish and gullible.

'Brief sojourn' is an illusion.

MikeNovack wrote: ↑Sat Jun 20, 2026 2:44 pm

Walker wrote: ↑Sat Jun 20, 2026 9:51 am
For scientists who believe in God, God is not a theory.
Scientists who believe in God are spiritual.

But it is misleading to put it that way

To the scientist, beliefs about the material world are "theories" based on observations of material reality subject to being disproved by other observations of material reality.

To the scientist (religious believer or not) religious beliefs are NOT subject to observations of material reality. No observation could disprove the existence of deity. Believers in religion are "spiritual" but the converse not necessarily true unless we take a VERY broad view of "religion".

Doesn't get any broader than spirituality permeating all of life ... which is the context.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Sat Jun 20, 2026 3:35 pm

Walker wrote: ↑Sat Jun 20, 2026 3:29 pm

Lacewing wrote: ↑Sat Jun 20, 2026 3:18 pm
Absurd ideas.

What kind of mentality needs to feel/believe that it has dominion over anything? Including dinosaurs?

Christian mentality, which is considerably older and more experienced than your brief sojourn.

Being proud of living by archaic ideas isn't very wise. It's fearful and foolish and gullible.

'Brief sojourn' is an illusion.

It's proven by empirical evidence.

Humans rule the world.

No brag, just fact.

Walker wrote: ↑Sat Jun 20, 2026 3:39 pm

Lacewing wrote: ↑Sat Jun 20, 2026 3:35 pm

Walker wrote: ↑Sat Jun 20, 2026 3:29 pm
Christian mentality, which is considerably older and more experienced than your brief sojourn.

Being proud of living by archaic ideas isn't very wise. It's fearful and foolish and gullible.

'Brief sojourn' is an illusion.

It's proven by empirical evidence.

Humans rule the world.

No brag, just fact.

Do you ever get tired of saying obviously stupid things?