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Re: Trump Derangement Syndrome

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 3:32 pm
by commonsense
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 3:17 pm
commonsense wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 12:52 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 2:10 am
Well, let's put it this way: why is he, to you, a worse prospect than Joe Biden actually is right now? Give me something I can believe is a reason to think that.
I wouldn’t even say he’s worse as a president. What I’ve said about Trump notwithstanding, Biden is old beyond his years (Trump is actually youthful for his), corny, chauvinistic and just boring. As a man, neither inspires me, to say the least.

As a president, Trump does Republican sorts of things. For Biden, it’s Democrat sorts. That’s really all there is to them as heads of state.
But why have any special antipathy to Trump?

Some minor ire, but nothing at all comparable, attended the regimes of either Bush, or of Reagan. The press insulted them, but in tones much more muted than today's. They might have been resented for their conservatism, or (in the case of Bush, particularly) mocked for their limitations; but they were not feared, hated, vilified and reviled as Trump has been. And in any impartial assessment, Biden is surely a much fatter target for criticism than any of the above, both for his person and his constant blunders politically...almost more of a ready target than all of them put together. He almost mocks himself. And yet, he catches very little media flak, by comparison to any of them.

Why are people so crazed? It needs an explanation. And the explanation clearly isn't that Trump is so inherently and manifestly so much more wicked, dirty or salacious than any of his predecessors. It's something else.

But what?
Good points. Good questions. I’ll come back to this after I get some sleep. 😗

Re: Trump Derangement Syndrome

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 3:33 pm
by Immanuel Can
commonsense wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 2:36 pm BTW, what is digital rape?
Inserting one's finger where it ought not to go, against the will of the recipient. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOti0PJlJ7A.

Re: Trump Derangement Syndrome

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 4:27 pm
by Walker
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 3:33 pm
commonsense wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 2:36 pm BTW, what is digital rape?
Inserting one's finger where it ought not to go, against the will of the recipient. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOti0PJlJ7A.
Poor woman. Biden used government power to abuse her, against her needs or desires. Now he is using government power to abuse the country, against its needs or desires.

Re: Trump Derangement Syndrome

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 4:29 pm
by Walker
commonsense wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 1:03 pm
Me thinks Walker doth protest too much.
Biden as president is obviously absurd, but check out John Fetterman, Pennsylvania candidate for US Senate. He is incoherent because of a recent stroke, yet he is supposedly leading in the polls for the upcoming election. The man needs rest and rehab. Go figure.

The Party likes its figure heads to be mentally compromised, even though that’s not a fair representative for the people.

This is why the Party only changes election laws that make cheating easier for them, otherwise they could not get their walking-wounded elected.

The Party is the secondary source for TDS, activating the inherent tendency in humans to be idiots.

Re: Trump Derangement Syndrome

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 4:48 pm
by Immanuel Can
commonsense wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 2:46 pm PS: I didn’t complain that he talks dirty, but rather that he is dirty.
Oh? So you didn't mean "talking"? You say he "is" dirty?

Let's put substance to that claim. What is it, in specific, that in your view makes him "dirty"?

Re: Trump Derangement Syndrome

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 6:22 pm
by commonsense
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 4:48 pm
commonsense wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 2:46 pm PS: I didn’t complain that he talks dirty, but rather that he is dirty.
Oh? So you didn't mean "talking"? You say he "is" dirty?

Let's put substance to that claim. What is it, in specific, that in your view makes him "dirty"?
There’s nothing specific about it. It’s like the opposite of saying someone is clean.

Re: Trump Derangement Syndrome

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 6:29 pm
by Immanuel Can
commonsense wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 6:22 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 4:48 pm
commonsense wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 2:46 pm PS: I didn’t complain that he talks dirty, but rather that he is dirty.
Oh? So you didn't mean "talking"? You say he "is" dirty?

Let's put substance to that claim. What is it, in specific, that in your view makes him "dirty"?
There’s nothing specific about it. It’s like the opposite of saying someone is clean.
What's your justification for applying that term to him, then? And what sort of "dirt" justifies the level of antipathy you express about him?

Re: Trump Derangement Syndrome

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 7:23 pm
by commonsense
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 3:17 pm
commonsense wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 12:52 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 2:10 am
Well, let's put it this way: why is he, to you, a worse prospect than Joe Biden actually is right now? Give me something I can believe is a reason to think that.
I wouldn’t even say he’s worse as a president. What I’ve said about Trump notwithstanding, Biden is old beyond his years (Trump is actually youthful for his), corny, chauvinistic and just boring. As a man, neither inspires me, to say the least.

As a president, Trump does Republican sorts of things. For Biden, it’s Democrat sorts. That’s really all there is to them as heads of state.
But why have any special antipathy to Trump?

Some minor ire, but nothing at all comparable, attended the regimes of either Bush, or of Reagan. The press insulted them, but in tones much more muted than today's. They might have been resented for their conservatism, or (in the case of Bush, particularly) mocked for their limitations; but they were not feared, hated, vilified and reviled as Trump has been. And in any impartial assessment, Biden is surely a much fatter target for criticism than any of the above, both for his person and his constant blunders politically...almost more of a ready target than all of them put together. He almost mocks himself. And yet, he catches very little media flak, by comparison to any of them.

Why are people so crazed? It needs an explanation. And the explanation clearly isn't that Trump is so inherently and manifestly so much more wicked, dirty or salacious than any of his predecessors. It's something else.

But what?
Ever since I learned to read a newspaper (yes, a newspaper), it has always seemed to me that the news outlets have a responsibility to criticize the Federal government, especially Congress and the President, as well as to present celebrity gossip. Comedians have made their living off of mocking the powers that be. A lot was made of President Ford’s physical bumbling, but Trump has suffered far more for his gaffes.

I mention the comedic barbs here because in Trump’s case, it was never good-natured ribbing. Never.

I think the animus stems from an intense emotional disgust. Whenever there seems to be no reason for an attitude or an opinion or really anything, it’s because it’s an unreasonable or irrational opinion or what not; it’s emotional.

Having established that a negative disposition toward Trump is irrational, I wonder what emotion might be at the root. I suspect it is fear. Not fear of Trump, but rather fear of change, fear of loss, fear of being unheard, fear of being unsafe and out of control.

Anyone can say they don’t like Trump because of his actions regarding, say, the Southern border, but would they cite such a cause if they were among his supporters instead? I’m sure the supporters of Biden have given him a pass even if the situation at the border is the same.

It’s emotions that determine who gets a pass, not reason.

Why do I say that this emotion is fear? Because fear is powerful, especially fear of change, of the unknown. Change can upset someone’s entire identity and sense of security. To be unsafe is to be avoided with far more energy than to seek pleasure.

For anti-Trumpers, change can only erode their feeling of safety. But how can this be their feeling? It’s because they are thinking with their lizard brain. They have not used higher function brain activity to analyze what they perceive as the true meaning of what’s going on. They have fallen victim to ancient characteristics of humans, ancient defense mechanisms.


In short, whenever there seems to be no reason for something, look for irrationality.

Re: Trump Derangement Syndrome

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 7:26 pm
by commonsense
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 6:29 pm
commonsense wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 6:22 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 4:48 pm
Oh? So you didn't mean "talking"? You say he "is" dirty?

Let's put substance to that claim. What is it, in specific, that in your view makes him "dirty"?
There’s nothing specific about it. It’s like the opposite of saying someone is clean.
What's your justification for applying that term to him, then? And what sort of "dirt" justifies the level of antipathy you express about him?
Do I need to enumerate again? It comes down to this: the man is not an example of an ethical human being.

Re: Trump Derangement Syndrome

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 7:56 pm
by Immanuel Can
commonsense wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 7:23 pm I mention the comedic barbs here because in Trump’s case, it was never good-natured ribbing. Never.
That's what I noticed, too. There was no willingness on the part of the media, Hollywood or even the Democrat public, to find Trump funny, or to do the usual sorts of satire, mannerism-mocking, or the sort of "well, we don't like him, but he's our Prez" kind of thing that comedians had made their living doing since anybody can remember. Their hatred (and that's the right word) and spitefulness was hot from day 1. That's very odd...because you couldn't possibly say there was no way to find funny things about Trump.

At the same time, you'll note, we've been informally 'instructed" or led to understand, that mockery of Biden is traitorous. No matter what obvious gaffes he makes, or no matter how disastrous his policies, it is not every okay, according to the media, to undermine Biden in any way -- or so it's been until lately, when Biden's folly has become so obvious that even many Leftist media sources are now trying to get some distance from him. But still, criticism is very muted, when it comes to Biden. That's "Trumpism," they'll tell you...it's disloyalty to....to what? :shock:
I think the animus stems from an intense emotional disgust. Whenever there seems to be no reason for an attitude or an opinion or really anything, it’s because it’s an unreasonable or irrational opinion or what not; it’s emotional.
I agree...it's irrational. And the emotional disgust that's been ginned up is totally disproportionate to any known "crimes" or "misdemeanours" we know him to have done. Clinton or Biden can sexually assault as many women as they like, and we don't blink. There's no emotional reaction to any of that. So why? That's the question I keep coming back to.
I suspect it is fear. Not fear of Trump, but rather fear of change, fear of loss, fear of being unheard, fear of being unsafe and out of control.
I don't think it can be.

The Democrats cheer when there are militants in the streets, and local business are in flames. They don't bat an eye when a black policeman is shot by looters, or a Korean shopkeeper is kicked to death in the streets. A granny is beaten bloody by a huge attacker at an ATM, and it doesn't even make the news on most stations. How can people who tolerate all that evil be "fearful"? What are they "fearing"? Clean, peaceful streets?
Anyone can say they don’t like Trump because of his actions regarding, say, the Southern border,
I don't see why.

I'm extremely pro-Honduran, myself. I have lots of friends there, and have been there four times. But the stampede to the open border is destroying the whole northern sector of that country, enriching the Mexican coyotes, traffickers and smugglers, and actually getting people killed. It's in everybody's interest that access to the border should be lawful, orderly and controlled. It serves nobody but criminals that it's not.
It’s emotions that determine who gets a pass, not reason.
But those are not natural emotions. They're controlled, induced ones. The media is telling people they have duty to hate Trump. They're not really saying why...although they tried (and got caught) the Russia hoax and other nonsense like that, to fill out some narrative they could sell. But the Democrats gladly accepted millions from him in donations, and the American public loved Trump on his television shows, lapped up every bit of celebrity news about his exploits, played in his casinos and stayed in his hotels...until he became president. Then, suddenly, he's this "toad" that nobody can stand? :shock:

Why? It's clear it's an emotional reaction, just as you say: but who's creating it and manipulating us, and for what purpose? Shouldn't we know, before we happily join their ranks and march along?

Re: Trump Derangement Syndrome

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 7:58 pm
by Immanuel Can
commonsense wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 7:26 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 6:29 pm
commonsense wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 6:22 pm

There’s nothing specific about it. It’s like the opposite of saying someone is clean.
What's your justification for applying that term to him, then? And what sort of "dirt" justifies the level of antipathy you express about him?
Do I need to enumerate again?
Again? You never did it for me the first time. What "again"?
It comes down to this: the man is not an example of an ethical human being.
Specifics, please. These generalites cannot be proved without specifics.

Re: Trump Derangement Syndrome

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 8:24 pm
by commonsense
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 7:58 pm
commonsense wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 7:26 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 6:29 pm
What's your justification for applying that term to him, then? And what sort of "dirt" justifies the level of antipathy you express about him?
Do I need to enumerate again?
Again? You never did it for me the first time. What "again"?
It comes down to this: the man is not an example of an ethical human being.
Specifics, please. These generalites cannot be proved without specifics.
Go back to the 5th post on page 9, qv disappointments for enumeration, qv pity for specifics.

Re: Trump Derangement Syndrome

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 8:26 pm
by vegetariantaxidermy
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 7:56 pm
commonsense wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 7:23 pm I mention the comedic barbs here because in Trump’s case, it was never good-natured ribbing. Never.
That's what I noticed, too. There was no willingness on the part of the media, Hollywood or even the Democrat public, to find Trump funny, or to do the usual sorts of satire, mannerism-mocking, or the sort of "well, we don't like him, but he's our Prez" kind of thing that comedians had made their living doing since anybody can remember. Their hatred (and that's the right word) and spitefulness was hot from day 1. That's very odd...because you couldn't possibly say there was no way to find funny things about Trump.

At the same time, you'll note, we've been informally 'instructed" or led to understand, that mockery of Biden is traitorous. No matter what obvious gaffes he makes, or no matter how disastrous his policies, it is not every okay, according to the media, to undermine Biden in any way -- or so it's been until lately, when Biden's folly has become so obvious that even many Leftist media sources are now trying to get some distance from him. But still, criticism is very muted, when it comes to Biden. That's "Trumpism," they'll tell you...it's disloyalty to....to what? :shock:
I think the animus stems from an intense emotional disgust. Whenever there seems to be no reason for an attitude or an opinion or really anything, it’s because it’s an unreasonable or irrational opinion or what not; it’s emotional.
I agree...it's irrational. And the emotional disgust that's been ginned up is totally disproportionate to any known "crimes" or "misdemeanours" we know him to have done. Clinton or Biden can sexually assault as many women as they like, and we don't blink. There's no emotional reaction to any of that. So why? That's the question I keep coming back to.
I suspect it is fear. Not fear of Trump, but rather fear of change, fear of loss, fear of being unheard, fear of being unsafe and out of control.
I don't think it can be.

The Democrats cheer when there are militants in the streets, and local business are in flames. They don't bat an eye when a black policeman is shot by looters, or a Korean shopkeeper is kicked to death in the streets. A granny is beaten bloody by a huge attacker at an ATM, and it doesn't even make the news on most stations. How can people who tolerate all that evil be "fearful"? What are they "fearing"? Clean, peaceful streets?
Anyone can say they don’t like Trump because of his actions regarding, say, the Southern border,
I don't see why.

I'm extremely pro-Honduran, myself. I have lots of friends there, and have been there four times. But the stampede to the open border is destroying the whole northern sector of that country, enriching the Mexican coyotes, traffickers and smugglers, and actually getting people killed. It's in everybody's interest that access to the border should be lawful, orderly and controlled. It serves nobody but criminals that it's not.
It’s emotions that determine who gets a pass, not reason.
But those are not natural emotions. They're controlled, induced ones. The media is telling people they have duty to hate Trump. They're not really saying why...although they tried (and got caught) the Russia hoax and other nonsense like that, to fill out some narrative they could sell. But the Democrats gladly accepted millions from him in donations, and the American public loved Trump on his television shows, lapped up every bit of celebrity news about his exploits, played in his casinos and stayed in his hotels...until he became president. Then, suddenly, he's this "toad" that nobody can stand? :shock:

Why? It's clear it's an emotional reaction, just as you say: but who's creating it and manipulating us, and for what purpose? Shouldn't we know, before we happily join their ranks and march along?
Trump was hilarious. The PC are completely devoid of a sense of humour.

Re: Trump Derangement Syndrome

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 9:16 pm
by Immanuel Can
commonsense wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 8:24 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 7:58 pm
commonsense wrote: Thu Sep 08, 2022 7:26 pm

Do I need to enumerate again?
Again? You never did it for me the first time. What "again"?
It comes down to this: the man is not an example of an ethical human being.
Specifics, please. These generalites cannot be proved without specifics.
Go back to the 5th post on page 9, qv disappointments for enumeration, qv pity for specifics.
You wrote:
I am disappointed by some of the things he’s done, e.g., derailment of the EPA by placing an avid anti-environmentalist in charge, deterioration of the Dept of Education by placing someone in charge of public education who has never taught in a public school, disparagement of the State Department, the CIA, the NSA, the FBI, the electoral process…

I pity him for some of the things that have happened to him, like staring at the sun without protection, being rejected by his wife when trying to hold her hand, being endorsed by the extreme right, endorsing violence at Charlottesville, inciting insurrection at the Capitol…
Yeah, I saw all that. I'm not sure most of it is even true, and a lot of it depends on your perspective.

For example, the public education system in America needs one serious overhaul, and maybe a complete dissolution. If he disrupted the current awful national monopoly in any way, I think that's a very good thing for America's students. And something like "looking at the sun without protection," I think is just something he can do anytime he wants. It certainly is no concern of anybody's.

But I can accept that you have different policy views, and don't like some of the things you think he did. That's just politics: you either like what the Dems do, or what the Repubs do, or neither. That's business as usual.

Still, it seems to me that none of it has anything to do with the term "dirty." And it doesn't explain what you call "emotional" and "irrational" kinds of antipathy, which seems to be what's actually in play here.

So could you please explain what you meant? What specifically qualifies him for the term "dirty"?

Re: Trump Derangement Syndrome

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 10:03 pm
by commonsense
I appreciate your post above.

Since you make much of my use of the word, “dirty”, I’ll explain myself this way:

Trump is an unethical, misogynistic, racist, homophobic, lying dirty dog.