Philosophy Now Forum

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 10:54 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 10:19 pm The truth hurts eh!

It must.

Exactly the words of a slave.

Dubious wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 6:49 am No...

Gee! I thought I wrote more than that. Remind me, what did I say no to

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 1:20 pmAs I said, you're saying nothing I find remotely interesting, and nothing I find remotely challenging.

That's understandable since you ignore any and all questions you find inconvenient to answer. A very fundamental one for Jesus believers is what happens to all the religious who don't believe in Jesus! Is the bible the one source in the world which offers absolute truth?

If you haven't got a clue what to say, feeling you may embarrass yourself, just ignore the questions as you always do!

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 1:20 pm For Nietzsche said, "God is dead."
And God says, "Nietzsche is dead."

Hmm...we know the source where Nietzsche said, "god is dead", but where is the source where god says that "Nietzsche is dead", and why would god want to behave like some vulgar, creepy human? You must have a very low opinion of god if you believe that's what he said!

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 5:13 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 3:00 pm The strongest always wins.

That's not what I meant (though, I can see from my sloppy construct why you might think so).

Sure, Joe can enslave Stan through the exercise of might, but no right is established.

Yep. I agree.

It's interesting, though: if Nietzsche were right about God being dead, then what is there, other than my "might" at the present moment, to secure for me my "rights"?

And what happens to my "rights" when I am old, or young, or female, or poor, or unpopular, or from a minority...Advocates for those groups admit and even insist that those groups lack the power they allegedly deserve...which means they also lack the might to defend themselves against the "hegemony" or "oppressive power" of some other group...and insist that they deserve to be accorded more power, so they can defend the alleged "rights" that they do not have the might to produce on their own.

None of that is coherent. If might makes rights, then only the mighty are in a position to determine what rights exist. The powerless have no justification, then, because they have no might. But they want to claim the rights to which their lack of might apparently disentitles them.

Was there ever a time when Cheech & Chong didn't agree?

Of course it's not coherent since your interpretation is not coherent through ignorance compounded with your pathetic intention to defame. You have to understand one thing re Nietzsche: he is light years ahead of you in intelligence regardless of how long you manage to live.

Dubious wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 12:08 am what happens to all the religious who don't believe in Jesus.

You know the answer, if you know even the first thing about Christianity.

But I suppose you might not, so I'll give you the references for the answer: John 3:36, Revelation 20:15.

where is the source where god says that "Nietzsche is dead",

It's called "reality."

Dubious wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 12:32 am he is light years ahead of you in intelligence regardless of how long you manage to live.

He is dead and judged. That's the truth.

Dubious wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 12:08 am what happens to all the religious who don't believe in Jesus.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 1:38 am You know the answer, if you know even the first thing about Christianity

But I suppose you might not, so I'll give you the references for the answer: John 3:36, Revelation 20:15..

...as per reference...

3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.

Taken at face value they're all screwed: Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, Confucians! Not exactly generous of god to be so exclusionary. On planet Earth that kind of attitude would constitute a hate crime.

Anyway, not good news for these delinquents.

You could have informed me the first time I asked you!

where is the source where god says that "Nietzsche is dead",

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 1:38 amIt's called "reality."

The reality is that EVERYONE DIES! We don't need a god to tell us that. After all, it was god supposedly who arranged it that way! Was Nietzsche so important to god he had to confirm separately that N was dead as if claiming a victory?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 1:39 am

Dubious wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 12:32 am he is light years ahead of you in intelligence regardless of how long you manage to live.

He is dead and judged. That's the truth.

That he is dead, yes.

That he, in truth, is judged as well, how would you know unless you're the one doing the judging? I think most people, even among theists, would judge you insane for making that kind of assertion and claim it as truth as if you had the authority! Has god confirmed that to you?

Dubious wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 3:37 am You could have informed me the first time I asked you!

I expected you knew. Ordinarily, before one offers a critique of something, one obtains a little knowledge. But not always, these days.

The reality is that EVERYONE DIES!

Of course. The Bible talks about that, as well. It says, "It is appointed to mankind once to die, and after this, the Judgment." (Heb. 9:27)
Well, Nietzsche is dead now. And if what the Bible says is true, then he knows better now than he thought he did when he was alive. And so will we all.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 3:54 am Well, Nietzsche is dead now. And if what the Bible says is true, then he knows better now than he thought he did when he was alive. And so will we all.

...unless we return to the oblivion from whence we came, then you will know nothing of having been a theist; I will know nothing of having been an atheist because NO ONE will know of ever having existed. Why would nature's clean-up routines allow for anything more!

Dubious wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 4:10 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 3:54 am Well, Nietzsche is dead now. And if what the Bible says is true, then he knows better now than he thought he did when he was alive. And so will we all.

...unless we return to the oblivion from whence we came, then you will know nothing of having been a theist; I will know nothing of having been an atheist because NO ONE will know of ever having existed. Why would nature's clean-up routines allow for anything more!

You are quite correct. If you were right, then when we die, we'd both be nothing.

But then, we'd also be nothing now, too: just a cosmic accident, doomed to glow briefly and wink out for no reason.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 4:24 am

Dubious wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 4:10 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 3:54 am Well, Nietzsche is dead now. And if what the Bible says is true, then he knows better now than he thought he did when he was alive. And so will we all.

...unless we return to the oblivion from whence we came, then you will know nothing of having been a theist; I will know nothing of having been an atheist because NO ONE will know of ever having existed. Why would nature's clean-up routines allow for anything more!

You are quite correct. If you were right, then when we die, we'd both be nothing.

But then, we'd also be nothing now, too: just a cosmic accident, doomed to glow briefly and wink out for no reason.

...which, personally, doesn't bother me in the least. But for others there is religion and philosophy to negate the feeling we are completely unimportant in the universe. These laminations only need to be active for as long as our clocks keep ticking after which Life defaults to the quid pro quo of non-existence where nothing becomes of nothing, to quote King Lear.

Even Nietzsche, whom you so despise, understood and noted many times that truth is not always in our favor, that life requires ornaments both in art and thought to be palatable.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 4:24 am

Dubious wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 4:10 am ...unless we return to the oblivion from whence we came, then you will know nothing of having been a theist; I will know nothing of having been an atheist because NO ONE will know of ever having existed. Why would nature's clean-up routines allow for anything more!

You are quite correct. If you were right, then when we die, we'd both be nothing.

But then, we'd also be nothing now, too: just a cosmic accident, doomed to glow briefly and wink out for no reason.

Why is that the only other alternative you go to? Is it because it's the only alternative that appears to justify what you want to believe? Truth is either the Christian way or no way at all? Doesn't that sound absurd? Why would truth be so ridiculously limited?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 3:54 am "It is appointed to mankind once to die, and after this, the Judgment." Heb. 9:27)
Well, Nietzsche is dead now. And if what the Bible says is true, then he knows better now than he thought he did when he was alive. And so will we all.

Do you not see a huge problem with that claim?

Does is not occur to you that you can never know death? ... and so what hope is there of you knowing you've been judged after you have died?

Does it not occur to you how ludicrous the ( Heb. 9:27 ) claim is?


Does it not occur to you that human intelligence is evolving to the point of understanding it's dual transcendental nature to be both good and evil, and there is nothing that can stop that dilemma, no more than you can stop yourself from being born. What choice did Immanuel Can have to be born into a dual reality of good and evil?

If God is anything at all, then God is all things inclusive. How could it have been any different? How can evil not exist?

So many questions, all are endlessly without absolute answer.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 4:24 am
You are quite correct. If you were right, then when we die, we'd both be nothing.

But then, we'd also be nothing now, too: just a cosmic accident, doomed to glow briefly and wink out for no reason.

But then what is wrong with that?

Animals are having it far worse ..lions having the skins off their backs torn to pieces by other hungry lions.

It's obvious life has a sell by date, nothing lasts forever. That's both the hopeless tragedy and the raw beauty of it. Why can't you just accept that, it's not like you have any other choice is it?

________________

1 Chronicles 16:34

"O give thanks to the LORD, for He is good; For His loving kindness is everlasting."

_______________

If God is all kind and good and loving then he must also be their opposites.

GOD: I'm going to bless you with the gift of a healthy child.
Man: Oh wow, your amazing love and kindness is everlasting, thankyou so much.
GOD: Then you are going to hear that your child has been brutally tortured, raped and strangled to death.
Man: Oh wow, your amazing love and kindness is everlasting, it's just the gift that keeps on giving, thankyou so much.

Dubious wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 6:06 am Even Nietzsche, whom you so despise,

Despise? Not at all. I think much of what he said would have been right if his worldview had been right. I admire his consistency in that, and I can't help but remark that he has a certain degree of courage as well -- a courage almost entirely lacking from most of his admirers, who generally see only a cheerful Atheist, and lack the spine to face up to the darkness he also perceived to be an inevitable consequence of the alleged "death of God".

Consider, for example, this passage from the famous "Madman's Parable":

"What were we doing when we unchained this earth from its sun? Whither is it moving now? Whither are we moving? Away from all suns? Are we not plunging continually? Backward, sideward, forward, in all directions? Is there still any up or down? Are we not straying, as through an infinite nothing? Do we not feel the breath of empty space? Has it not become colder? Is not night continually closing in on us? Do we not need to light lanterns in the morning?"

Nietzsche called us "murderers," and said the killing of God was "a deed to great for us." He knew very well that we are incapable of doing it without the complete eradication of morality and meaning, and the loss of any compass of truth. His followers don't get that at all: they whistle their way through the graveyard, and fiddle while their own Rome is burning.

They think they're going to have fun, instead of ending up the playthings of those with more power than they have. Of course, they're wrong: even if they are the ubermensch today (which, of course, is almost invariably untrue anyway), they won't be tomorrow. They don't even think about that.

Their fault is not that they love Nietzsche; it's that they don't listen to him, or hear him only selectively, in the way they want to hear him, and don't take him seriously. If they did, they'd be much more concerned about their position than they are.