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Re: Art and truth
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:39 pm
by psycho
Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:23 pm
psycho wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:07 pm
In other words, the music does not generate any emotion or the emotions it generates are not related to the music?
Correct. As I said above, "purely" aesthetic emotional reactions. Emotional responses that are only to form.
When you have emotions while listening to music, are these emotions arbitrary?
Not arbitrary, but particular to an individual.
Emotions result from the interpretation of reality.
It's not an interpretation in this case. Merely a reaction to the form/structure. These emotions have nothing to do with emotions such as "happy," "sad," etc. They're responses to forms or structures as such.
I notice that you are varying the subject. Sometimes music, sometimes form.
An emotional reaction to a certain shape is a response to the interpretation of a volume in space.
A particular arbitrariness of an individual does not take away the arbitrary.
I find it strange that you do not consider that a shape has a conceptual basis when it is created by humans.
Re: Art and truth
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:48 pm
by Terrapin Station
psycho wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:39 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:23 pm
psycho wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:07 pm
In other words, the music does not generate any emotion or the emotions it generates are not related to the music?
Correct. As I said above, "purely" aesthetic emotional reactions. Emotional responses that are only to form.
When you have emotions while listening to music, are these emotions arbitrary?
Not arbitrary, but particular to an individual.
Emotions result from the interpretation of reality.
It's not an interpretation in this case. Merely a reaction to the form/structure. These emotions have nothing to do with emotions such as "happy," "sad," etc. They're responses to forms or structures as such.
I notice that you are varying the subject. Sometimes music, sometimes form.
An emotional reaction to a certain shape is a response to the interpretation of a volume in space.
A particular arbitrariness of an individual does not take away the arbitrary.
I find it strange that you do not consider that a shape has a conceptual basis when it is created by humans.
Music is form or structure--of pitches, rhythms, timbres, etc.
What we're often doing in music composition is creating forms/structures that we find attractive merely for the form/structure it is. (Music is what I do professionally, by the way. I'm a musician, composer and arranger. It's how I've made a living my entire life. I've done it professionally for over 40 years now.)
Re: Art and truth
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:10 pm
by psycho
Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:48 pm
psycho wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:39 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:23 pm
Correct. As I said above, "purely" aesthetic emotional reactions. Emotional responses that are only to form.
Not arbitrary, but particular to an individual.
It's not an interpretation in this case. Merely a reaction to the form/structure. These emotions have nothing to do with emotions such as "happy," "sad," etc. They're responses to forms or structures as such.
I notice that you are varying the subject. Sometimes music, sometimes form.
An emotional reaction to a certain shape is a response to the interpretation of a volume in space.
A particular arbitrariness of an individual does not take away the arbitrary.
I find it strange that you do not consider that a shape has a conceptual basis when it is created by humans.
Music is form or structure--of pitches, rhythms, timbres, etc.
What we're often doing in music composition is creating forms/structures that we find attractive merely for the form/structure it is. (Music is what I do professionally, by the way. I'm a musician, composer and arranger. It's how I've made a living my entire life. I've done it professionally for over 40 years now.)
Fantastic!
Do you have a conceptual guide when creating music (such as a framework that defines what is artistically effective)? You seek and approach your goal with a certain idea? Maybe not at the beginning, but when things seem headed to a certain creation.
Re: Art and truth
Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:38 am
by Skepdick
Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:23 pm
It's not an interpretation in this case. Merely a reaction to the form/structure. These emotions have nothing to do with emotions such as "happy," "sad," etc. They're responses to forms or structures as such.
Sounds like somebody doesn't know the difference between feelings and emotions.
Re: Art and truth
Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:13 pm
by Terrapin Station
Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:38 am
Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:23 pm
It's not an interpretation in this case. Merely a reaction to the form/structure. These emotions have nothing to do with emotions such as "happy," "sad," etc. They're responses to forms or structures as such.
Sounds like somebody doesn't know the difference between feelings and emotions.
You're not one to argue that there are correct definitions/correct usage, are you? That wouldn't seem to go with your other comments. And if that's something you think, how do you think that correct definitions obtain, exactly?
Re: Art and truth
Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:10 pm
by Skepdick
Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:13 pm
You're not one to argue that there are correct definitions/correct usage, are you?
I am not arguing definitions. I am simply pointing out that you'll be able to make your point much more poignant if you drew a distinction between feelings and emotions.
Perhaps you don't know that there is a difference? Which would explain why you are waffling.
Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:13 pm
That wouldn't seem to go with your other comments. And if that's something you think, how do you think that correct definitions obtain, exactly?
Perhaps we should talk about your confusion about the meaning of my comment?
Re: Art and truth
Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:21 pm
by Terrapin Station
Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:10 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:13 pm
You're not one to argue that there are correct definitions/correct usage, are you?
I am not arguing definitions. I am simply pointing out that you'll be able to make your point much more poignant if you drew a distinction between feelings and emotions.
Perhaps you don't know that there is a difference? Which would explain why you are waffling.
Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:13 pm
That wouldn't seem to go with your other comments. And if that's something you think, how do you think that correct definitions obtain, exactly?
Perhaps we should talk about your confusion about the meaning of my comment?
You said that I don't know the difference, as if there's a difference to know based on correct word usage.
What distinction do you think is useful in this context?
Re: Art and truth
Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:23 pm
by Skepdick
Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:21 pm
You said that I don't know the difference, as if there's a difference to know based on correct word usage.
I am not arguing correctness either. I am arguing the poverty of your vocabulary.
Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:21 pm
What distinction do you think is useful in this context?
Did you miss it the first time?
Re: Art and truth
Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:24 pm
by Terrapin Station
Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:23 pm
I am not arguing correctness either. I am arguing the poverty of your vocabulary.
Is there a difference to know that someone can not know? What evidences whether they know?
Re: Art and truth
Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:28 pm
by Skepdick
Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:24 pm
Is there a difference to know that someone can not know?
Isn't there?
What evidence whether they don't?
Re: Art and truth
Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:30 pm
by Terrapin Station
Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:28 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:24 pm
Is there a difference to know that someone can not know?
Isn't there?
What evidence whether they don't?
Right. So again, you DO think that there are correct definitions/usages. How do those obtain?
Re: Art and truth
Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:34 pm
by Skepdick
Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:30 pm
Right. So again, you DO think that there are correct definitions/usages.
I do? What does the poverty of your vocabulary have to do with the correct use of your vocabulary?
Does any language obtain?
Re: Art and truth
Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:37 pm
by Terrapin Station
Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:34 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:30 pm
Right. So again, you DO think that there are correct definitions/usages.
I do? What does the poverty of your vocabulary have to do with the correct use of your vocabulary?
How can I have a poverty of vocabulary based on not using a distinction that's not even correct?
Does any language obtain?
We're typing, aren't we?
Re: Art and truth
Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:41 pm
by Skepdick
Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:37 pm
How can I have a poverty of vocabulary based on not using a distinction that's not even correct?
What does correctness have to do with anything? It's a useful distinction.
Take it as customer feedback, perhaps? I would've understood you much better had you used the distinction.
We are doing much more than that. How do you know it "obtains"?
Re: Art and truth
Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:44 pm
by Terrapin Station
Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:41 pm
It's a useful distinction.
Okay, so what do you find useful about it?
We are doing much more than that. How do you know it "obtains"?
Again, via typing. That's sufficient for it to obtain.