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When the Buddha started to wander around India shortly after his enlightenment, he encountered several men who recognized him to be a very extraordinary being. They asked him: "Are you a god?" "No," he replied. "Are you a reincarnation of god?" "No," he replied."Are you a wizard, then?" "No." "Well, are you a man?" "No." "So what are you?" They asked, being very perplexed. Buddha simply replied: "I am awake." Buddha means “the awakened one.” How to awaken is all he taught.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sun Aug 16, 2020 4:56 am Henry and commonsense

I've asserted that we are all equal in being asleep in Plato's cave attached to the shadows on the wall. The Buddha taught awakening to the human condition.

When the Buddha started to wander around India shortly after his enlightenment, he encountered several men who recognized him to be a very extraordinary being. They asked him: "Are you a god?" "No," he replied. "Are you a reincarnation of god?" "No," he replied."Are you a wizard, then?" "No." "Well, are you a man?" "No." "So what are you?" They asked, being very perplexed. Buddha simply replied: "I am awake." Buddha means “the awakened one.” How to awaken is all he taught.

Without awareness of what it means to be asleep in Plato's cave and contemplating it in order to verify it, what good is chopping wood for the seeker of truth who has verified that he is asleep and wants to awaken rather than go with the flow?.If he is content with sleep just keep chopping by habit. If he desires to awaken it requires a new practice of chopping.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sun Aug 16, 2020 4:56 am Henry and commonsense

I've asserted that we are all equal in being asleep in Plato's cave attached to the shadows on the wall. The Buddha taught awakening to the human condition.

When the Buddha started to wander around India shortly after his enlightenment, he encountered several men who recognized him to be a very extraordinary being. They asked him: "Are you a god?" "No," he replied. "Are you a reincarnation of god?" "No," he replied."Are you a wizard, then?" "No." "Well, are you a man?" "No." "So what are you?" They asked, being very perplexed. Buddha simply replied: "I am awake." Buddha means “the awakened one.” How to awaken is all he taught.

Without awareness of what it means to be asleep in Plato's cave and contemplating it in order to verify it, what good is chopping wood for the seeker of truth who has verified that he is asleep and wants to awaken rather than go with the flow?.If he is content with sleep just keep chopping by habit. If he desires to awaken it requires a new practice of chopping.

Belinda wrote: ↑Sun Aug 16, 2020 10:53 am

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sun Aug 16, 2020 4:56 am Henry and commonsense

I've asserted that we are all equal in being asleep in Plato's cave attached to the shadows on the wall. The Buddha taught awakening to the human condition.

When the Buddha started to wander around India shortly after his enlightenment, he encountered several men who recognized him to be a very extraordinary being. They asked him: "Are you a god?" "No," he replied. "Are you a reincarnation of god?" "No," he replied."Are you a wizard, then?" "No." "Well, are you a man?" "No." "So what are you?" They asked, being very perplexed. Buddha simply replied: "I am awake." Buddha means “the awakened one.” How to awaken is all he taught.

Without awareness of what it means to be asleep in Plato's cave and contemplating it in order to verify it, what good is chopping wood for the seeker of truth who has verified that he is asleep and wants to awaken rather than go with the flow?.If he is content with sleep just keep chopping by habit. If he desires to awaken it requires a new practice of chopping.

how we all wish everyone could be freed from the limited vision of the Prisoners in the Cave!

What is the greatest experience you can have? It is the hour of the great contempt. The hour when your happiness, too, arouses your disgust, and even your reason and your virtue.
The hour when you say, 'What matters my happiness? It is poverty and filth and wretched contentment. But my happiness ought to justify existence itself.'
The hour when you say, 'What matters my reason? Does it crave knowledge as the lion his food? It is poverty and filth and wretched contentment.'
The hour when you say, 'What matters my virtue? As yet it has not made me rage. How weary I am of my good and my evil! All that is poverty and filth and wretched contentment.'

We can wish that humanity can be freed from the prison of Plato's cave but to accept that we. ourselves, are a slave in this way is too intolerable to seriously consider and too insulting to verify.

Belinda wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:33 am Nick_A wrote:

We can wish that humanity can be freed from the prison of Plato's cave but to accept that we. ourselves, are a slave in this way is too intolerable to seriously consider and too insulting to verify.

Speak for yourself if you wish!
I have worked as a teacher, and have friends and relations who were and are teachers. Education is for freeing people from the 'slavery' of ignorance and lack of judgement. Educationists address the problem of ignorance daily and minute by minute.

To know oneself is to have insight into one's own prejudices and personality.

Simone Weil lamented that education had become no more than "an instrument manipulated by teachers for manufacturing more teachers, who in their turn will manufacture more teachers." rather than a guide to getting out of the cave.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:12 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:33 am Nick_A wrote:

We can wish that humanity can be freed from the prison of Plato's cave but to accept that we. ourselves, are a slave in this way is too intolerable to seriously consider and too insulting to verify.

Speak for yourself if you wish!
I have worked as a teacher, and have friends and relations who were and are teachers. Education is for freeing people from the 'slavery' of ignorance and lack of judgement. Educationists address the problem of ignorance daily and minute by minute.

To know oneself is to have insight into one's own prejudices and personality.

How can anyone free themselves if they don't know the problem? I know it is insulting but if Simone is right it adds a new and vital perspective for eduction which is denied

Simone Weil lamented that education had become no more than "an instrument manipulated by teachers for manufacturing more teachers, who in their turn will manufacture more teachers." rather than a guide to getting out of the cave.

Show me teacher who knows what it means to be in the cave as well as knowing what is necessary to get out of the cave and that is a teacher I would really appreciate talking to.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sat Aug 15, 2020 7:49 pm
Go fly a kite!

why fly a kite?

to fly a kite

it's not a system (distraction) or a process (a distraction) or a philosophy (a distraction)

don't court the millipede's quandary by analyzin' it or codifyin' it or lookin' for the right way to do it

just get some string (not too heavy or light for you) and go fly a kite

no time limit, no set amount of flyin'

go fly a kite

don't read about it or consult the thinkin' of the great kite flyers of history

just go fly a kite

and, to be plain about it: I ain't bein' figurative or clever or zen

just go fly a kite

Does that work, Henry?

Skepdick wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:56 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:48 am I assume not everyone can be a university professor, someone has to grow crops or do the other essential tasks, so how is everyone to get tenure. That seems unrealistic.

Indeed. Not everybody knows how to swindle people into paying them a salary before producing any goods.

Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:00 am

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:12 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:33 am Nick_A wrote:



Speak for yourself if you wish!
I have worked as a teacher, and have friends and relations who were and are teachers. Education is for freeing people from the 'slavery' of ignorance and lack of judgement. Educationists address the problem of ignorance daily and minute by minute.

To know oneself is to have insight into one's own prejudices and personality.

How can anyone free themselves if they don't know the problem? I know it is insulting but if Simone is right it adds a new and vital perspective for eduction which is denied

Simone Weil lamented that education had become no more than "an instrument manipulated by teachers for manufacturing more teachers, who in their turn will manufacture more teachers." rather than a guide to getting out of the cave.

Show me teacher who knows what it means to be in the cave as well as knowing what is necessary to get out of the cave and that is a teacher I would really appreciate talking to.

The general name of the problem is 'suffering'.
.

Suffering is composed of many particular events when someone or something suffers. Suffering is inevitable . Our task and the task of educators is to alleviate it as much as possible. Empathy can be taught and must be taught if we are to free ourselves from the Cave where all is not as it seems to those who are ignorant about themselves and others.

There are plenty of prophets and seers in our traditions who can show us the way to see what is what. These right prophets and seers can be identified partly by their faithfulness, plus their empathy that stops them being cruel. Most of us have met , or known by hearsay, some of these people in everyday life.

Take your pick. You know Simone Weil. I gather she was faithful. Did she have empathy?

Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Aug 19, 2020 3:01 am

Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:00 am

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:12 pm

How can anyone free themselves if they don't know the problem? I know it is insulting but if Simone is right it adds a new and vital perspective for eduction which is denied



Show me teacher who knows what it means to be in the cave as well as knowing what is necessary to get out of the cave and that is a teacher I would really appreciate talking to.

The general name of the problem is 'suffering'.
.

Suffering is composed of many particular events when someone or something suffers. Suffering is inevitable . Our task and the task of educators is to alleviate it as much as possible. Empathy can be taught and must be taught if we are to free ourselves from the Cave where all is not as it seems to those who are ignorant about themselves and others.

There are plenty of prophets and seers in our traditions who can show us the way to see what is what. These right prophets and seers can be identified partly by their faithfulness, plus their empathy that stops them being cruel. Most of us have met , or known by hearsay, some of these people in everyday life.

Take your pick. You know Simone Weil. I gather she was faithful. Did she have empathy?

Empathy nay be a wonderful quality to have. But is it a good reason to give an alcoholic a bottle? What good is one prisoner of Plato's cave giving another empathy which quickly turns into justification. A teacher who doesn't know what it means to be asleep in Plato's cave doesn't know what is essential to promote awakening..

Empathy nay be a wonderful quality to have. But is it a good reason to give an alcoholic a bottle? What good is one prisoner of Plato's cave giving another empathy which quickly turns into justification.

Empathy is knowing as much as possible what it feels like to be the other.

“The capacity to give one's attention to a sufferer is a very rare and difficult thing; it is almost a miracle; it is a miracle. Nearly all those who think they have the capacity do not possess it.” ~ Simone Weil

"Difficult as it is really to listen to someone in affliction, it is just as difficult for him to know that compassion is listening to him." ~ Simone weil

I guess , Nick, you are probably aged over 60, and consequently have been subjected to the sort of teaching that regards children as identical empty pots that need to be filled with whatever knowledge is acceptable to the powers that be. No decent modern teacher has taught in that way since the 1970s and earlier when the newer child-centred educationalists were making their marks.