Philosophy Now Forum

roydop wrote: ↑Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:40 pm "But the Absolute isn't an entity, does not play hide and seek, has no intention, has no interest, doesn't feel like awareness, there isn't anything positive about it, or anything at all to say about it, really. Even great sages like Ramana Maharshi seem to have fallen for this illusion."

Huh? How do you figure that Ramana "fell for" anything? His teaching was sitting in silence. Fully Enlightened, Done.

Atla wrote: ↑Sun Mar 03, 2019 6:45 am The Hindu belief that the Absolute, our true self, is playing hide and seek with itself, is one of the best metaphysical ideas ever invented, I really like it. It's almost correct, because as far as we can tell, our egos are indeed illusory, our "true self" is indeed the Absolute. So this idea contains the first awakening from the ego.

The great question of philosophy is that, if even "intentional hide and seek" is an illusion, then why are we here? There must be something else about this world, which may have to do with the Absolute sort of naturally looping through itself. That's where philosophy starts to get really interesting imo, I've been pondering this for a decade, but I never see this discussed.

In order to prevent infinite regression ("turtles all the way"), one must realize that the entire world is metaphor. So if the world itself continues on expanding for infinity in an attempt to fully describe the Absolute, then any attempt to find conclusion "going out" following the path of thought will run in parallel with it. FO EVA!

This idea/fact that the "game" contains the potential to go on infinitely, has indicated to me that the purpose of the game is to complete (escape, end) the game. The basic underlying "code"/instruction of the system is: "That which is focused on most will appear most real." So the more interesting something is, the more powerful the spell of maya. Even mind/thoughts apply. This system operates on cycles/iterations that bootstraps each new accepted reality, forming the base of the next creative cycle.

Taking this literally, which I do, fundamentally the purpose for anything happening within the game is to draw attention to it in order for it to appear real/give it life. The degree to which awareness is placed on the phenomena is the degree it appears substantial, and also the degree to which Awareness is diverted from the Absolute (causing temporary, localized delusion).

It's the most difficult labyrinth ever created. Look at where following mind has led us. It's part of the design and we fell for it

HARD!

The world doesn't attempt to fully describe the Absolute. As such there is no infinite regression problem, nor is anything running parallel.

Indeed. So this is where we end the conversation?

roydop wrote: ↑Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:21 pm Indeed. So this is where we end the conversation?

I guess so. It's two different human thought processes that pretty much always run parallel, which create the illusion of fundamental duality.

But a finite mind can never fully grasp the infinite. Nor is there any sign that the world itself is trying to fully describe itself.

Yes human understanding, pushed to its absolute limits, is a major part of the puzzle. But something much weirder seems to be going on here.

Weirder? Please elaborate.

But you have to stop with the negation trick ("The world doesn't attempt to fully describe the Absolute. As such there is no infinite regression problem, nor is anything running parallel"). You can't play that card and then continue with query.

roydop wrote: ↑Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:56 pm Weirder? Please elaborate.

But you have to stop with the negation trick ("The world doesn't attempt to fully describe the Absolute. As such there is no infinite regression problem, nor is anything running parallel"). You can't play that card and then continue with query.

Well I can play that card, since beyond this point I think philosophy becomes extremely dark and depressing, and I came to the conclusion that it's best to never really elaborate. But very well.

My best guess is that in this world, the infinite sort of loops through itself. What we are witnessing may be one of the most common / one of the most probable loops within the infinite, which is why everything is so minimalistic in our universe. Every parameter of our universe seems to be just the bare minimum necessary for such a loop or loops to be able to go through one or a few humans (their "minds").

Which on the surface does in a way create the illusion of the Absolute trying to describe itself. After all human understanding pushed to its limits, coupled with everything our civilization has figured out about the world, is part of the minimalistic route.

The

weirdness

humanity is going through/feeling is due to a fundamental phase shift taking place.

Consciousness is about to take the next evolutionary step. The perfect metaphor is that of being pulled/entering a black hole.

If true Self/Absolute is not realized before the phase shift occurs, the ego will experience an inversion event. Before this "rebirth" event (passing the event horizon) everything illusory/created will be twisted, ripped apart, destroyed. Things will become very confusing. This inversion event is nothing less than consciousness moving from accepting the physical realm to be fundamental reality to consciousness accepting the non-physical realm as fundamental reality. This aligns perfectly with the species' extinction.

The twisting and inverting of everything ego-based is already clearly evident in such extremes as gender reassignment, women's bodybuilding, and to a lesser degree the overall increasing identity crisis occurring within the species. How about "truth"? Is that being twisted and inverted? Are movies and video games a twisting of reality? Are we watching our screens so much that the physical realm is becoming less "real?" (re: That which receives the most attention will appear most real).

If we investigate the charts of some of the largest systems recorded, we will see that they have developed into exponential functions. Eg: Human population, number of symbols in existence, number of thoughts occurring within human consciousness, climate change. Now put all of those charts on their side and imagine where we are in relation to being pulled down the neck of a black hole. This last little bit is going to go faster than the human brain can process.

"The perfect metaphor is that of being pulled/entering a black hole."

Yeah, to a sensible head, gettin' eaten by a singularity = DEATH.

No thanks.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:14 pm

Age:
That is extremely EASY and SIMPLE to answer and SHOW.

Show it then... Don’t just say it, show it ....Where is the individual self?

Wrapped up in individual thought/s.

Within every human body there are two selves, the individual self and the true Self.

The individual self, (small s), is the one that thinks it knows what is true, right and correct. This self is the one that talks about "i see ...", "i do ...", "i am ...". As the thoughts evolve as an individual body ages so to does that individual i, self, (small i). For arguments sake a human body is born without thought. But gains thoughts along the way. 'Thought' is just a word describing the body of knowledge containing views, perceptions, ideas, concepts, beliefs, assumptions, opinions, et cetera, et cetera. All of an individual body of knowledge, within one human body, combined with all of the internal feelings within that unique human body, at any given moment, form the individual self. This individual is always changing as the unique human body has its own "separate" individual different experiences. Because each seemingly "separate" human body has its own unique individual experiences, which ultimately become the invisible thoughts and feelings that are held within each unique, "separate", individual brain with each human body, then this is what causes the apparent 'individual self'. So, where the individual self is, is within each individual human body. This self though is completely invisible to the human eye so that is WHY it can not be seen. But it can be point to, through descriptive words. Descriptive words (language) can and do illustrate things. ALL things can be SHOWN and SEEN, through and with the correct and proper language.

"dontaskme" asked: When you try to point to the actual location of the individual SELF ...where is it?

Where i point to is the individual self is within an individual human body.

SEE, this individual self (the individual thoughts and feelings within this human body) writing under the banner "age", can now be SEEN through these very words. This individual self, which originated from within this body, is now here for all to SEE, LOOK AT, study, and become AWARE OF. Although the individual self, through individual body experiences, comes into being within the human body as thought/s, those thought/s if shared are spread out and so then that individual self continues on effecting change through causing actions and reactions. Now if you want to LOOK AT this on a much more deeper and thorough level and gain a much higher level of understanding, from the true Self's perspective, then we can do that also?

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:14 pm

The one who writes under the label "dontaskme", however, BELIEVES that this would be an impossible thing to do. Therefore, "you" are left stuck in "your" BELIEFS.

No, the one who writes under the label “Age” believes that “Dontaskme” believes that this would be an impossible thing to do.

When In truth she doesn’t believe that at all...you only believe she does else you wouldn’t have said it...if you hold no beliefs then you can’t know that that’s what she believes.

Do you see the dilemma?

.

What you say here is correct in that what i said does appear to be a belief, which even i was taken aback when i read it, especially on re-reading your question and seeing that after all it was just a truly OPEN question, so I thank you for bringing this to my attention. i, unfortunately, must of ASSUMED that within your question you were believing that it was an impossible thing to do. I thank you because i really do need to learn more in how to express much more clearly and accurately and to stop making such stupid assumptions. I based my view on a recollection of you previously stating that things like this, "pointing to where the self is", can not be done with language. But you never expressed that this time, so i apologize.

Although I do NOT believe that "dontaskme" believes that this would be an impossible thing to do I can certainly SEE how, from what i said, it appears that way.

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 02, 2019 3:10 pm Consciousness cannot manifest itself through me when I am dead but only when I am alive
But life and death are merely different states : one of awareness and one of no awareness
I am looking forward to being free of suffering in the state of no awareness when it comes
This state will be an eternal one and it is the reason as to why I do not fear death anymore

What do you think/feel you are actually suffering from?

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:24 pm "The perfect metaphor is that of being pulled/entering a black hole."

Yeah, to a sensible head, gettin' eaten by a singularity = DEATH.

No thanks.

Like you have a choice.

Your lil 'black hole' may be inevitable (I don't think it is) and I may get swallowed up too, but I'll kick and fight all the way down.

Age wrote:
What do you think / feel you are actually suffering from ?

The existence of the human condition [ albeit only temporary ]
Because suffering cannot be experienced without consciousness

Atla wrote: ↑Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:44 pm My best guess is that in this world, the infinite sort of loops through itself. What we are witnessing may be one of the most common / one of the most probable loops within the infinite, which is why everything is so minimalistic in our universe. Every parameter of our universe seems to be just the bare minimum necessary for such a loop or loops to be able to go through one or a few humans (their "minds").

Which on the surface does in a way create the illusion of the Absolute trying to describe itself. After all human understanding pushed to its limits, coupled with everything our civilization has figured out about the world, is part of the minimalistic route.

Interesting description! To me, it's like my guess that our understanding, no matter how extensive and "lofty" we may think it is, it is still confined to the influence or flow of being human -- which is a narrow stream/dream within infinite possibility. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:40 pm

Atla wrote: ↑Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:44 pm My best guess is that in this world, the infinite sort of loops through itself. What we are witnessing may be one of the most common / one of the most probable loops within the infinite, which is why everything is so minimalistic in our universe. Every parameter of our universe seems to be just the bare minimum necessary for such a loop or loops to be able to go through one or a few humans (their "minds").

Which on the surface does in a way create the illusion of the Absolute trying to describe itself. After all human understanding pushed to its limits, coupled with everything our civilization has figured out about the world, is part of the minimalistic route.

Interesting description! To me, it's like my guess that our understanding, no matter how extensive and "lofty" we may think it is, it is still confined to the influence or flow of being human -- which is a narrow stream/dream within infinite possibility. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Yeah whatever we come up with, it's done with a human mind. On the other hand, I do actually base my guess on infinite possibility, or rather an infinite "multiversal" field. I've been trying to simulate in my head for like a decade now, how some parts of a world of infinite possibility would necessarily sort of loop through themselves and be themselves at the same time, what such loops would be like and what their relative probabilites would be (in case probabilities within the infinite work the way I think they do). Still a work in progress.

It's a guess based on everything I know. It leads to a pretty dark and depressing picture about our world, which is why I would never publish this in detail, and would never ever mention certain implications of it.

Which is funny, so many people are pushing their shallow and clueless unified theories, full of rainbows, but what I found is pretty horrible and almost unfathomably weird/out-of the-box, so I wouldn't tell (and maybe I'm selfish enough to keep it to myself anyway hehe and then use it when the times comes, in case my guess turns out to be more or less correct).

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:33 am

Age wrote:
What do you think / feel you are actually suffering from ?

The existence of the human condition [ albeit only temporary ]
Because suffering cannot be experienced without consciousness

The depths and levels we could go into in discussing your comments here are just about as endless, as you think exists after the human condition ends.