Philosophy Now Forum

Posted: **Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:14 pm**

Lev Muishkin wrote:I fear nothing. What's the worse that could happen? You could die. Death is just a cessation; peace. I've faced that off and know I can deal with it.

I dunno. How can we be sure that death = peace?

Posted: **Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:58 pm**

henry quirk wrote:"Spot on"

Yep.

#

"Some people are afraid of everything and thus see fear in everyone else, even when there is no fear present. Indifference and dislike are not fear."

Yep.

No, the ones that recognize fear, everywhere it exists, are the only ones honest enough to admit it, and as such they are more capable of controlling it. As psychologists have said, "knowing the problem is half the battle."

The ones that deny it, are far too afraid of admitting it, they think it makes them weak, quite the contrary, it makes them stronger. For instance, one that talks of shooting people all the time, is steeped in fear, up to their eyeballs in it. Often they say such things to ward off imaginary enemy's, that they create by doing something illegal, like not paying their taxes. They create the situation because they fear being penniless, yet then they fear being caught, so they grab something that shall stop those that shall bring them to justice, because they fear not getting away with their crime. They fear the price they'll have to pay. They have to have the upper hand, because they fear loosing. It can get so bad that they can become paranoid.

In picking their weapon to combat their imaginary enemies, they pick the one that is most devastating to them, the one they fear the most, because surely if they fear it, everyone else shall. When you threaten dealing fear, you have to be acquainted with it, know it, had experience with it, by it on occasions consuming you. The more you know fear the better you can deal it. Yet as I said earlier, in all this, one fears acknowledging it most, because once done it's like Pandora's box. And they can implode as with a nervous breakdown, or explode, and go on a killing spree. Especially targeted would be anyone that made them face their fear.

People are sheeple because they fear, because the governments are mighty, paying taxes because they fear for the same reason. Yet they fight the government because they fear they are too strong, and of course I've already mentioned why they don't pay taxes because of fear. They do the speed limit because they fear loosing money to tickets, and speed because they fear loosing their jobs, thus money, because they are running late. In all cases there is dichotomy, opposite reasons to fear depending upon the individual, and their particular season of change. People that want to survive can fear both not going to school, because of potential lower income, and going to school because they doubt their abilities to pass, potentially wasting their money.

All of the above are neither all inclusive nor all exclusive, of the plethora reasons people fear. They are just a few arbitrary examples. They are just the tip of the iceberg. In this fast paced, competitive world, fear runs rampant; that you'll live alone, that you'll get married, that you'll get an STD, that you won't be accepted by a mate, or that you'll get pregnant, that you won't please your superior, that you won't replace your superior, etc, etc, etc! It's the primary reason for stress, some stress is good, but too much can kill.

Fear is one of the innate emotions, and as such, it is with us all the time, as the juxtaposition of what we desire, and that which we do not desire.

Sure it's called many names to avoid admitting what it is, yet at it's core it is fear.

So the question is: "Do you want to be strong in facing your fears, or weak in running from them?"

An award winning 2005 documentary, actually states that fear is the reason humans create culture. Imagine that! Watch it, if you dare to take it seriously, though it might "frighten" you.

Posted: **Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:00 pm**

SpheresOfBalance wrote:
It is fear! At it's roots it's fear. .

Lev Muishkin wrote:
SpheresOfBalance wrote:
Lev Muishkin wrote:
I think you mean; "At its roots it's fear".
Really? Now you see, I see those two as the same thing.
Duh no. "At it's roots it's fear" is just ungrammatical.

Lame point, especially when meaning is understood.

Posted: **Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:02 pm**

Lev Muishkin wrote:I fear nothing. What's the worse that could happen? You could die. Death is just a cessation; peace. I've faced that off and know I can deal with it.

Of course you're going to say that, because you fear saying otherwise. Watch the documentary!

Posted: **Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:53 pm**

People who are consumed with a pathological condition often try to claim that everyone has the same condition, thus projecting themselves into the mainstream of being "Just like everyone else". What they can't accept is that they are a minority and not like everyone else, they can't accept that different can sometimes be a good thing, so they project their self perceived failings onto everyone. These people are more deserving of pity than anything else.

Posted: **Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:19 am**

thedoc wrote:People who are consumed with a pathological condition often try to claim that everyone has the same condition, thus projecting themselves into the mainstream of being "Just like everyone else". What they can't accept is that they are a minority and not like everyone else, they can't accept that different can sometimes be a good thing, so they project their self perceived failings onto everyone. These people are more deserving of pity than anything else.

It's true that people can be consumed!
It's true that people can be pathological!
It's true that people can project!
It's true that people can be somewhat alike!
It's true that people can be completely different!
It's true that people can be pitied!
It's true that people can be admired.
It's true that all people fear, It's innate in humans, so say the people that actually know better.
It's also true that people strike out at those that strike them too hard with anything they don't want to hear, that they fear.

I have education and people with PhD's to back me up. Where is you evidence?

What you fail to realize, to be unable to answer, is the who is who in all this?

And therein lies your problem Doc!

Crap doc, you actually lied to me about watching that documentary, and made up fictitious commentary as to it's contents. What kind of person does that? Then you finally leveled with me that it was a matter of time better spent with grandchildren. I thank you for that truth, it was totally understandable and respectable. But what else have you lied about? Maybe fear, because you fear to admit it! I mean how much time in research have you actually given it? Maybe there are lies in your means of attacking people; maybe you should reconsider who your friends actually are. You should try truth all the time doc, because it looks good on you, and it shall set you free, especially related to fear.

And you're right, some people deserve pity! You just have to know who they are.

Posted: **Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:14 am**

SpheresOfBalance wrote:
thedoc wrote:People who are consumed with a pathological condition often try to claim that everyone has the same condition, thus projecting themselves into the mainstream of being "Just like everyone else". What they can't accept is that they are a minority and not like everyone else, they can't accept that different can sometimes be a good thing, so they project their self perceived failings onto everyone. These people are more deserving of pity than anything else.
It's true that people can be consumed!
It's true that people can be pathological!
It's true that people can project!
It's true that people can be somewhat alike!
It's true that people can be completely different!
It's true that people can be pitied!
It's true that people can be admired.
It's true that all people fear, It's innate in humans, so say the people that actually know better.
It's also true that people strike out at those that strike them too hard with anything they don't want to hear, that they fear.

I have education and people with PhD's to back me up. Where is you evidence?

What you fail to realize, to be unable to answer, is the who is who in all this?

And therein lies your problem Doc!

Crap doc, you actually lied to me about watching that documentary, and made up fictitious commentary as to it's contents. What kind of person does that? Then you finally leveled with me that it was a matter of time better spent with grandchildren. I thank you for that truth, it was totally understandable and respectable. But what else have you lied about? Maybe fear, because you fear to admit it! I mean how much time in research have you actually given it? Maybe there are lies in your means of attacking people; maybe you should reconsider who your friends actually are. You should try truth all the time doc, because it looks good on you, and it shall set you free, especially related to fear.

And you're right, some people deserve pity! You just have to know who they are.

It's true that people fear some things, but every person does not fear everything, which is what you seemed to be saying. If you are saying that fear is not universal with all people about all things, then I could agree, and we only disagree on the degree of fear.

Education and PhD do not guarantee infallibility, many of the people I have encountered with much education have been wrong about basic knowledge.

Where did I say that I had watched the video, from your posting, about fear. I had watched it many years ago and didn't need to watch it again. If I say I watched a particular video, then I did at some time but not necessarily from a recent posting.

I try to tell the truth of what I believe to be true, but I have never claimed that everything I thought I know was absolutely correct. If I have erred, show me, I will listen to a reasoned and civil response, but I will shut off BS and abuse.

Posted: **Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:18 pm**

Although SOB doesn't know the difference between 'it's' and 'its' I think he has a point about fear. Most of the reason we behave ourselves and conform to the rules of society (except the ones we like) is because of fear - fear of embarrassment in front of our neighbors. Governments used to have to threaten huge punishments to scare people into not stealing or committing adultery, etc.. Nowadays, most of us behave just out of fear of what other people would think of us if we behaved badly.

I do agree with HQ though that no one fears philosophy.

Posted: **Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:35 pm**

Wyman wrote:Although SOB doesn't know the difference between 'it's' and 'its' I think he has a point about fear. Most of the reason we behave ourselves and conform to the rules of society (except the ones we like) is because of fear - fear of embarrassment in front of our neighbors. Governments used to have to threaten huge punishments to scare people into not stealing or committing adultery, etc.. Nowadays, most of us behave just out of fear of what other people would think of us if we behaved badly.

I do agree with HQ though that no one fears philosophy.

I have to disagree, yes there are cases and people who behave out of fear of punishment or public humiliation, but there are also many who act because it is "The right thing to do" and not out of fear of some form of punishment.

Posted: **Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:36 pm**

Fear is not as universal as some seem to believe.

Posted: **Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:06 pm**

thedoc wrote:
SpheresOfBalance wrote:
thedoc wrote:People who are consumed with a pathological condition often try to claim that everyone has the same condition, thus projecting themselves into the mainstream of being "Just like everyone else". What they can't accept is that they are a minority and not like everyone else, they can't accept that different can sometimes be a good thing, so they project their self perceived failings onto everyone. These people are more deserving of pity than anything else.
It's true that people can be consumed!
It's true that people can be pathological!
It's true that people can project!
It's true that people can be somewhat alike!
It's true that people can be completely different!
It's true that people can be pitied!
It's true that people can be admired.
It's true that all people fear, It's innate in humans, so say the people that actually know better.
It's also true that people strike out at those that strike them too hard with anything they don't want to hear, that they fear.

I have education and people with PhD's to back me up. Where is you evidence?

What you fail to realize, to be unable to answer, is the who is who in all this?

And therein lies your problem Doc!

Crap doc, you actually lied to me about watching that documentary, and made up fictitious commentary as to it's contents. What kind of person does that? Then you finally leveled with me that it was a matter of time better spent with grandchildren. I thank you for that truth, it was totally understandable and respectable. But what else have you lied about? Maybe fear, because you fear to admit it! I mean how much time in research have you actually given it? Maybe there are lies in your means of attacking people; maybe you should reconsider who your friends actually are. You should try truth all the time doc, because it looks good on you, and it shall set you free, especially related to fear.

And you're right, some people deserve pity! You just have to know who they are.
It's true that people fear some things, but every person does not fear everything, which is what you seemed to be saying. If you are saying that fear is not universal with all people about all things, then I could agree, and we only disagree on the degree of fear.
I agree doc, I have not specified quantity. I'm not saying that people are totally petrified about everything. Of course sometimes the fear is subtle, but it's still fear, no matter how slight.

Education and PhD do not guarantee infallibility, many of the people I have encountered with much education have been wrong about basic knowledge.
True, but in this case, being totally fair, and considering everything I have learned, from many sources, I agree that it surely seems logically true. That my belief is JTB.

Where did I say that I had watched the video, from your posting, about fear. I had watched it many years ago and didn't need to watch it again. If I say I watched a particular video, then I did at some time but not necessarily from a recent posting.
I'm surprised you don't remember, is it truly "thedoc" of old? We had this same argument about a year ago. And I busted your chops for leading me on about watching it, remember? You complained about watching commercials with William Shatner in them. I've noticed that some threads have disappeared, I have copies of some, but it takes too long to search through them. I'll try and find the actual date. Anyway you said as much as I originally said you had, as far as I can recollect. Doc I never lie on purpose, at least not ever on this forum.

I try to tell the truth of what I believe to be true, but I have never claimed that everything I thought I know was absolutely correct. If I have erred, show me, I will listen to a reasoned and civil response, but I will shut off BS and abuse.

And that's how I've thought of you in the past..., PM sent with the continuation.

Posted: **Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:24 pm**

SpheresOfBalance wrote:
thedoc wrote: Where did I say that I had watched the video, from your posting, about fear. I had watched it many years ago and didn't need to watch it again. If I say I watched a particular video, then I did at some time but not necessarily from a recent posting.
I'm surprised you don't remember, is it truly "thedoc" of old? We had this same argument about a year ago. And I busted your chops for leading me on about watching it, remember? You complained about watching commercials with William Shatner in them. I've noticed that some threads have disappeared, I have copies of some, but it takes too long to search through them. I'll try and find the actual date. Anyway you said as much as I originally said you had, as far as I can recollect. Doc I never lie on purpose, at least not ever on this forum.

I try to tell the truth of what I believe to be true, but I have never claimed that everything I thought I know was absolutely correct. If I have erred, show me, I will listen to a reasoned and civil response, but I will shut off BS and abuse.

And that's how I've thought of you in the past..., PM sent with the continuation.

OK, I remember the bit about the interruptions by Shatner and I remember complaining about them, but still I had seen the video before that, without Shnatner, and am going on memory.

I haven't gotten any fresh PM's, so either resend it, or check to see if it went through in the first place.

Posted: **Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:57 am**

DesolationRow wrote:
Lev Muishkin wrote:I fear nothing. What's the worse that could happen? You could die. Death is just a cessation; peace. I've faced that off and know I can deal with it.
I dunno. How can we be sure that death = peace?

Yeah we wouldn't know that unless we are dead.

Posted: **Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:13 pm**

DesolationRow wrote:
Lev Muishkin wrote:I fear nothing. What's the worse that could happen? You could die. Death is just a cessation; peace. I've faced that off and know I can deal with it.
I dunno. How can we be sure that death = peace?

We can't. Muishkin just wants to believe a fairy tale. Even the non-religious need a fairy tale.

Posted: **Tue Mar 10, 2015 8:48 pm**

Wyman wrote:Although SOB doesn't know the difference between 'it's' and 'its' I think he has a point about fear. Most of the reason we behave ourselves and conform to the rules of society (except the ones we like) is because of fear - fear of embarrassment in front of our neighbors. Governments used to have to threaten huge punishments to scare people into not stealing or committing adultery, etc.. Nowadays, most of us behave just out of fear of what other people would think of us if we behaved badly.

I do agree with HQ though that no one fears philosophy.

That you start off with correcting my English shows what you fear, and seemingly don't we all, that frequent this forum that is, the ego, such a sensitive mechanism. Do we fear giving, becasue it seemingly makes us weak, vulnerable? Can we only give after taking? Especially with those that seem hard and ungiving? What do they deserve? Will the solution be derivred from fear or understanding? Shall we curb or perpetuate, tit for tat bickering; because of fear? Is it a matter of perspective? Is there such a thing as, "cruel to be kind?" If so, is it suspect? What exactly does "honest to a fault", mean? Is the honesty faulty becuse it lacks sensitivity? Are these concepts relative to the individual experience in question? I mean how sensitive is one that's been beaten up most of their lives, versus one that's been coddled most of theirs? Can these two somehow sense each others differences? Should they necessarily know their differences? Should anyone be blamed for not knowing what it is the other one needs? What does it take to know what the other one needs? Is it important to give anything to anyone? What do we expect? Should we give what we expect to get? Or should we give what we believe one deserves? Can that belief alwasys be necessarily true? Should anyone be concerned with knowing the answers to these questions? Could they provide additional answers to anything at all? Would anyone really want to know?

"It's" = "It is." It's a contraction, right? Please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not a writer, as I seldom do. I have forgotten over time. If one does not use it, they loose it. Actually I hated English as a subject, all those years ago back in school, far too many rules to commit to memory, I've always been a rebel. Of course in these days I see the importance, especially since I'm often writing in a forum. As I read/write I look up words, to be sure, but I seldom if ever look up rules.

The bit about HQ's belief is false. It would be more proper to say that: "All people 'shouldn't' fear philosphy, becasue the truth sets one free; truly!" I would say that some, don't want to see their true reflection, (they fear it), that they would also fear philosophy, becasue philosophy asks about everything, even the motivations one has in their mind, and many fear admitting them to themselves. There are in fact a lot of "cases" out there. Their psychologists would be quite frustrated, yet quite busy! Their subconscious knows, yet their consciousness fears to admit it. Full of internal conflict, a self defeating condition, ending in dimentia? I mean, what would their lives have actually been for? Could it be that they've grasped this concept, only when it's far too late? The confusion finally exposed, for all to see?

Can anyone be honest as to their true motivations, can we ever truly know them, or does our conscious mind get in the way? Does fear actually save or destroy us?

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