Everyone comes into this conversation for their own purposes, right? Therefore it seems to me that given that this is a philosophy-based forum that once the Credo (I believe) is laid out the next step is in examining its purpose. And it seems to me that everyone who has come into this conversation, when they do so, reveals what their purpose is.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jan 23, 2023 6:18 amLook at the topic at the top of the page. If I'm a Christian, and the topic is Christianity, with what sort of voice would you expect me to speak? Would it be that of a somewhat cynical secularist who is not really a Christian? Or would you expect me to speak as an actual Christian, and tell you the truth about what I actually think?
That you may know which it is, I always provide references. And I quote Scripture. And I do these things, not because I expect that you believe them, but because If I'm going to speak as a Christian, I owe you the proof that that is the voice with which I'm speaking...and I owe you the means to check me on that, by examining for yourself to see if the Word that governs Christian life actually supports the claim I'm making, or I'm just making it up.
Now, what would you prefer? That I speak as a Christian and provide the evidence, or that I speak from myself, acting as a kind of faux-secularist, pretending to be a Christian, toss some opinions off the cuff, and not even bother to back up what I say with the Word of God or give you the means to check me?
But at the initial phase the first order of business, in regard to Immanuel Can's extremely doctrinaire position, takes shape through presenting to him why the very foundation of a zealous Christian belief has become impossible. Simply put this means that try as one might one cannot fit oneself back into the 'belief' upon which the Christian system is based.
Start at the very beginning and (I assert) nearly every person who would ask the pointed questions will find that 'belief' has become impossible. Just examine the mythological elements: not one of them is believable. In order to remain in belief, in order to hold to those foundational tenets, requires a fantastic series of mental gymnastics.
Within those gymnastics there is a mix of things that go on. Credulousness, the desire to believe, the capacity to eliminate doubt and to stop thinking about that which one does doubt in favor of the belief one desires to believe. The act of 'believing what can no longer be rationally believes' is something that would need to be examined in itself.
But that in itself seems to me the truly wondrous thing: that people can do this, that they feel compelled and driven to do it. It is really sort of a 'miracle' that they pull it off. But the question arises: Why do they do this? As far as it pertains to Protestant Evangelicals I have found that you have to pay attention to their 'personal salvation story'. In so many instances they had fallen into pits of addition, loss, anxiety that bordered into suicide tendency. And finding Jesus, and a community of helpers, brought them back into life.
In my view this mechanism needs to be examined. The Christian says that Jesus Christ is up there or over there in some *somehow* world and that when the Christian bows down in the appropriate manner, having come to the end of his rope, that then god beams down to him this thing called grace and salvation. But really what is the mechanism? Is the question worthwhile? When it is thought about the *visualization* is absurd.
What then is the Larger Picture in respect to the phenomenon of 'belief' of this sort? The questions seems to be: Will religious belief be able to resurrect itself in a 'sustainable' fashion? I think the answer is no. But there are contradicting facts. One is that Christian belief is not abating but expanding. The Third Millennium is not an Age of Atheism but an age of increased Christian (and Islamic) faith. What the Evangelicals have done is to have extended the reach of Christianity which has been collapsing in the Occident and spread *The Word* in the Global South.
See: The Next Christendom: The Coming of Global Christianity by Phillip Jenkins.
The thesis of this book is that the center of Christianity has shifted southward to Africa, Asia, and Latin America. As a result, in spite of the seeming decline of Christianity in the western world, Christianity is actually growing and flourishing in most areas around the world (Location 992).
The Next Christendom begins with an elaboration of the thesis by challenging the myth that Christianity is actually declining and disappearing in the world. It may seem like that in the western world, but soon enough, the center of Christianity is going to be Africa and Latin America. After elaborating on that point, Jenkins begins to paint a picture of the history of Christianity and how it has expanded across the world. He makes a point to paint a picture of how Christianity was closely tied with the western imperial expansion. He then moves to explain how Christianity is flourishing in Asia, Africa, and Latin America, using many illustrations and case studies to prove his point. Throughout the book, Jenkins is subtly asking the reader to consider how this shift of Christianity should affect how one lives out one’s faith. Since “Christianity is flourishing wonderfully among the poor and persecuted, while it [is] atroph[ying] among the rich and secure”, what needs to change in the western world for Christianity to once again flourish here? Will the global north change at all? That is the question that begs to be asked.
But here is something to consider: The expansion of the core tenets of Christian faith are contained and expressed with the Americanism I have spoken of. Even when the outer cloak of open religious faith is left behind an essential core of religious zeal remains. That essentially religious zeal can be recognized especially strongly within America. For this reason I have referred to Tomislav Sunic's book Homo Americanus: Child of the Postmodern Age:The first edition of The Next Christendom has been hailed as a landmark in our understanding of modern Christianity. In this new and substantially expanded second edition, Jenkins continues to illuminate the remarkable expanion of Christianity in the global South--in Africa, Asia, and LatinAmerica--as well as the clash betwen Islam and Christianity since September 11. Among the major topics covered are the growing schism between Northern and Southern churches over issues of gender and sexuality, immigrant and ethnic churches in North America, and a special section on the split within the Anglican Communion. The first in a three-book trilogy on the changes besetting modern Christianity, this award-winning book will be welcomed by all of those who have come to recognize Philip Jenkins as one of our leading commentators on religion and world affairs.
My view is that throughout this entire conversation there is very little effort to contextualize what we are talking about (as a set of metaphysical and social tenets) and what is going on around us. It is as if people are unaware of the connection to the 'realities' we are living in.In this book Dr. Tomislav Sunic describes the origins and dynamics of America's founding myths. Quoting and translating from many long-forgotten or suppressed sources from the fields of literature, history, anthropology and philosophy, the book represents an interdisciplinary compendium dealing with the topic of Americanism. The genealogy of early Calvinist Puritanism mixed with the techno-scientific religion of boundless economic progress and legally veiled in the obscure para-Biblical and Jewish-inspired sense of political self-chosenness, created a system that has little in common with its original design. Postmodern Americanism, with its abstract theories of multiculturalism and its global desire for world improvement, turned America into a menacing and self-destructive continent that puts not only the survival of America's European heritage at risk, but threatens the heritage of other peoples worldwide as well.
Though you take offense at every turn, and cannot understand why *you* are being critiqued, nevertheless the critique can be shown to have validity.
I propose(d) that you are an *outcome* of all sorts of different processes that can be located and talked about, yet you in this sense cannot talk about any part of that! You are in this sense invisible to yourself.
And also a man without *beliefs* is a man without concrete ideas about what is right, what is good, what is necessary, and what has value. In the context of social and economic Postmodernism then a person like you has been rendered not much more than a cog that is molded and manipulated by superior forces. In our world today those forces are showing their power. What essentially are *they* doing? They are constructing the world of Homo Americanus in which everyone becomes a similar cog. You do not have an agency that you can actually define. In fact the very notion of 'nation' is attacked. But then so are all aspects of 'identity' since identity is an obstacle that must be overcome to create this strange Christian Post-Christian Universalized world that is hard on the threshold.
