Click.
Okay, one more time.
Mary aborts Jane because in a wholly determined universe as some understand it, she was never free to opt not to abort her.
Mary has decided of her own free will as some understand it to abort Jane, her unborn fetus. But Susan of her own free will has a conversation with Mary and is able to convince her not to abort Jane.
Some years later Jane is around to, of her own freewill, thank Susan for the very life that she is living.
phyllo wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 8:09 pm
Which part is ridiculous?
That there are antecedents?
That in the present moment a person is faced with choices?
That a person uses his/her brain to decide among choices?
Antecedent: a thing or event that existed before...and precedes another.
Okay, things and events existed before for both a wholly determined and for a free will Mary.
But tell that to Jane. If you know what I mean. Though apparently, you don't.
As I noted above to henri...
Think of it like this...
Imagine the universe being such that there is a free will part and a wholly determined part.
Those from the free will part are hovering above planet Earth in the wholly determined part. They note that over and over and over again you and I and everyone else down here are choosing things.
But then they remind themselves that what we in fact choose we are not in fact choosing freely.
We need but go down the chain of life here and note, say, a colony of ants. We watch them choosing their behaviors. But we think, "it's virtually all instinct, behaviors programmed almost entirely by their ant brains."
On the other hand, sure, human consciousness is matter of a whole other kind. But then back to what you think you know about it as an infinitesimally tiny speck of existence in the vastness of all there is. Hell, you won't -- can't? -- even admit to yourself what you don't know about it.
Right?
How is this not applicable to you, presuming a free will world.
And, again, I'm not an objectivist here. I'm not arguing that I can demonstrate that your point is ridiculous...only that to me, subjectively, here and now it is ridiculous.
And, indeed, maybe someone here will succeed in explaining to me in regard to Mary and Jane why it is not ridiculous.
