Philosophy Now Forum

And lots of Americans also are against the arming of teachers in schools. The more rational approach in my opinion has been the permanent stationing of trained police officers as adjuncts to school safety.

I realize that from reading the feedback to proposed legislation and the surveys.

K: the lie in this is made clear by the school shooting in Uvalde Texas....
the police there declined to go into the classroom for over an
HOUR.... even with having massive firepower advantage...
and hundreds of police officers... they still wouldn't go into
the classroom because they were in fear of the gunman....
and these are trained, professional police.....
and if they won't get into it with a single shooter,
why would an untrained/barely teacher get into it?
the police very response tells us that even with guns or
a massive firepower advantage, they still wouldn't get into
it with a lone gunman.....

in the above you posted... it deals with theory, not with reality....
the reality is that having a gun cannot and does not protect one...
as the police response in Uvalde shows us....

you can arm the teachers with machine guns, and it will still
not protect either the teachers or the students....
guns don't protect anyone.....it is just another right wing lie....
as the police in Uvalde shows us...

The point is not whether it would work or not.

The point is that people are living in a society where they think they need to arm teachers in order to protect schoolkids.

There is something very wrong with that kind of society.

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 8:23 pm The point, Gary, is not you, and is rather the time we are in. Our culture. What we have allowed (through reneging responsibilities). It is so interesting to me how foreign these ideas appear to you. Why is that?

What have we "allowed" that you are concerned about?

EDIT: If it's just those police officers not telling a couple of guys having sex in public to go find a room, maybe send a letter to the jurisdiction.

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 8:11 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 7:55 pm

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 7:53 pm Gary, I have noticed that you have refrained from public discussion of your masturbation perversions. How did that come about? What influenced you to curtail those revelations?

You and IC said you didn't want to hear it so I mostly stopped talking about it. Would you like me to start back with the topic? I can oblige if you wish it.

Did IC also object?

My point: there is a form of shaming, uniquely masculine, which causes men with a conscience to reflect on what they do. Your permissiveness toward yourself that made it feel right, proper and acceptable to describe your greasy self-pleasuring activities in public was shamed.

That activity — shaming — is an application of decisive manly power.

If you feel comfortable describing masturbation on a public forum, it is not that far a skip to being permissive toward masturbation in public.

Self-permissiveness is then reflected in policies of social permissiveness. Like BJs and urination fetishes on public streets.

This making sense?

K: and once again, abstract and theoretical.... show us concrete examples
of ''self-permissiveness" and its connection to your very flawed example
of ''masturbation and urination fetishes''

and your grand pronouncement of ''public shaming'' how ''shaming
forces a man with a conscience , to reflect on who they are''

''that activity- shaming- is an application of decisive manly power""

Are you high? shaming is and always has been a women action....
women use shame to guilt others into all kinds of actions/beliefs....
shame is not a man thing, but a women's thing...

again, show us examples....

BTW, I can't imagine you being married given your incel ideas toward
women....


Kropotkin

phyllo wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 8:49 pm

K: the lie in this is made clear by the school shooting in Uvalde Texas....
the police there declined to go into the classroom for over an
HOUR.... even with having massive firepower advantage...
and hundreds of police officers... they still wouldn't go into
the classroom because they were in fear of the gunman....
and these are trained, professional police.....
and if they won't get into it with a single shooter,
why would an untrained/barely teacher get into it?
the police very response tells us that even with guns or
a massive firepower advantage, they still wouldn't get into
it with a lone gunman.....

in the above you posted... it deals with theory, not with reality....
the reality is that having a gun cannot and does not protect one...
as the police response in Uvalde shows us....

you can arm the teachers with machine guns, and it will still
not protect either the teachers or the students....
guns don't protect anyone.....it is just another right wing lie....
as the police in Uvalde shows us...

The point is not whether it would work or not.

The point is that people are living in a society where they think they need to arm teachers in order to protect schoolkids.

There is something very wrong with that kind of society.

K: this idea is driven by right wing media talking points...
and they believe that even teenagers should have guns...
that the mentally ill should have guns... frankly, having raised
a teenager daughter, I believe that the mentally ill should
have guns before teenagers...

Kropotkin

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 9:01 pm Are you high? shaming is and always has been a women action. Women use shame to guilt others into all kinds of actions/beliefs. Shame is not a man thing, but a women's thing.

You are speaking of women’s shaming in a limited situation. Like a mother scolding her child.

Shame

Psychologist Robert Karen identified four categories of shame: existential, situational, class, and narcissistic. Existential shame occurs when we become self-aware of an objective, unpleasant truth about ourselves or our situation. Situational shame is the feeling we have when violating an ethical principle, interpersonal boundary, or cultural norm.

Guilt

Guilt is a moral emotion that occurs when a person believes or realizes—accurately or not—that they have compromised their own standards of conduct or have violated universal moral standards and bear significant responsibility for that violation. Guilt is closely related to the concept of remorse, regret, as well as shame.

In our culture, and in our morality, ethics and law, the conduct that is shameful and guilt-causing has been defined by men (‘manliness’ in my lexicon) through intellectual processes.

Trust me on this one, bro.

Really, it is a masculine domain.

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 9:04 pm Frankly having raised a teenaged daughter, I believe that the mentally ill should have guns before teenagers.

I sense there is a story here.

"frankly, having raised
a teenager daughter, I believe that the mentally ill should
have guns before teenagers..."

Frankly it's the routine and drudgery of the typical proletarian work life, keter, that prevents u from spending quality time with your family members somewhere other than at the dinner table. Becuz of everybody's overworked and/or overschooled daily grind, they have no other time to be together except during a few monotonous rituals like meals and church and shit like that. Even pizza night loses it's flair and it's no longer exciting.

Problem is the rigidity of the working schedule and the lack of mobility (due to being grounded to the town with the store u work in). And if you're paying a mortgage, it wouldn't make any sense to go on long excursions from home becuz you'd be paying that monthly on top of your excusion expenses. 30 years to pay off a house my ass.

I'm tellin u keter p, it's a terrible trap that isn't at all logically necessary and is only like it is becuz of some big property moves and exchanges bewteen wealthy tycoons 'round the industrial age. And that shit only happened becuz the proles let it. They were dissuaded, as it were, by strike busters and hired thugs like IC, henry, AJ and fishpie.

What u and your daughter and old lady need is a road trip and several grand that u could just spend however. If the fuckin soviets were runnin your store keter u could take any time off u wanted and even transfer work and housing location if u guys wanted a change of scenery. There would be a line of store managers all over the world wanting to do the same thing and you all would coordinate with each other. Job assignments and extended vacations would go together if u wanted em to. And u wouldn't be paying any 30 year mortages or outrageous rent to live anywhere. You'd have a range of accessible options for housing depending on your income and credit. There will be perfect weather for a streamline world... there'll be spandex jackets, one for everyone...

This world is all fucked up keter p. They're doing it all wrong I'm like durrrr.

40 hr work weeks are killing our families and destroying this country.

promethean75 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 11:05 pm What u and your daughter and old lady need is a road trip and several grand that u could just spend however.

A multi-month national road trip to visit America’s finest shooting ranges!

“A family that together shoots, remains in close cahoots.”

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 12:23 am

promethean75 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 11:05 pm What u and your daughter and old lady need is a road trip and several grand that u could just spend however.

A multi-month national road trip to visit America’s finest shooting ranges!

“A family that together shoots, remains in close cahoots.”

K: the only people who need guns are those driven by extreme fear...
as I am not, I have no need for a gun.... or gun ranges...

Kropotkin

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 4:23 am

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 12:23 am

promethean75 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 11:05 pm What u and your daughter and old lady need is a road trip and several grand that u could just spend however.

A multi-month national road trip to visit America’s finest shooting ranges!

“A family that together shoots, remains in close cahoots.”

K: the only people who need guns are those driven by extreme fear...
as I am not, I have no need for a gun.... or gun ranges...

Kropotkin

One has to make the distinction between sport shooting, hunting and personal protection.

Kropotkin, with genuine admiration, tinged with a sense of the truly strsnge, I confess that you are the most amazing creature I’ve encountered so far in cyberspace!

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 4:23 am

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 12:23 am

promethean75 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 11:05 pm What u and your daughter and old lady need is a road trip and several grand that u could just spend however.

A multi-month national road trip to visit America’s finest shooting ranges!

“A family that together shoots, remains in close cahoots.”

K: the only people who need guns are those driven by extreme fear...
as I am not, I have no need for a gun.... or gun ranges...

Kropotkin

Do you support having police having guns? Is your support driven by extreme fear?
Perhaps you feel that the police will, despite history, never be turned on citizens in a general, not specific to an individual crime, way. Or the military. And you approve of them carrying guns to assuage your fears - or not, let me know. Others might consider these facets of government to potentially be threats, given national history and international history. So, they perhaps see it is as reasonable precaution and also as prevention, given that the government knows the guns are there.

You can psychoanalyze, negatively, people who differ on the issue. Or you could try to understand one of the motivations they have that is not necessarily driven by extreme fear.

Just as your sense that police and military having guns could be seen by others - pacifists, whomever - as driven by your extreme fear - or by yet others as misplaced trust or a kind of permanent naivte.

But neither psychoanalysis is really justified. People on many sides of this issue might be driven or guided by all sorts of thoughts, reasonings, emotions, etc. There's still the business of figuring out what the best analyses leads to in terms of behavior, ownership, laws, etc. And we are informed not a whit by psychoanalysis in any direction. It's essentially ad hom-babble and mindreading pretensions, especially when aimed at large groups as if they were one person you or others know well.

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 9:01 pmBTW, I can't imagine you being married given your incel ideas toward women.

Well here’s the deal. My wife is very definitely and constitutionally conservative. However when I met her she had not been exposed to the intellectual material that would support the social conservatism that informed her instinctively or intuitionally.

We talk about these matters a great deal. And because it is easier for me to access information, I have been able to present her with reading material which has helped her develop a better thought-out position in support of her values.

In a culture such as this — Colombia and Latin America in general — there are not enough resources for merely intellectual pursuit. When people attend Uni it is with a specific career objective. There is no time to waste nor resources to study outside of a career focus.

As it plays out few have sufficient background in ideas (philosophy, ethics, theology, political theory, etc.) and for this reason (like my wife) are weak when articulating an intellectually coherent position is needed. And if people cannot think things through at that level they become susceptible to the common trends which, here, tend to follow those of the mass-culture of the US (the strongest cultural influence).

Again, when for various reasons we fall away from classical education, and training in thinking, we wind up in the situation that you are in (without knowing it): in the grip of emoted, sentimental henid-like “ideas” that seem so true, so right. Half-cocked as it were, they careen off into bizarre territories of thinking more in common with postmodern pastiche than with intellectual clarity.

The reference to Weininger will no doubt evoke reaction, but his idea of the henid is important. Gary, you, Sculptor (and others) are driven by henids.

In my view (it does have some defects but is useful within limits) you people provide clear evidence of the feminized man. You are more women than you are men. But note that I am speaking predominantly of “yous” at an intellectual and idea level. And “the feminine” in a special sense.

When we set up the Reeducation Camps, and you are forced through our Intellectual Modification Program, know that you will be extruded in beautiful new form!

Oh Happy Day!

phyllo wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 12:05 pm

Peter Kropotkin wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 4:23 am

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 12:23 am
A multi-month national road trip to visit America’s finest shooting ranges!

K: the only people who need guns are those driven by extreme fear...
as I am not, I have no need for a gun.... or gun ranges...

Kropotkin

One has to make the distinction between sport shooting, hunting and personal protection.

K: yah, because everyone should have an AK-47 for personal protection......

Kropotkin