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Re: Christianity
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:19 pm
by Harbal
See next post but one.
Re: Christianity
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:23 pm
by Alexis Jacobi
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:13 pm
Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 12:30 pm
You Immanuel have attached...
Not I.
Read the Word of God. Argue with Him, not with me.
As it happens I do not have to argue with him. I have in most ways transcended argument. Does god have an argument with me? I do not believe that 'god' (divinity, origin, creation, existence and being) exist to 'argue' in the sense you take religious orientation.
The entire paradigm you function within has to be *seen* for what it is: an immense coercive construct. I recognize that you did not invent it. But I hold you responsible for your commitment to it. I say this is not the way to go about things. This is not the way to draw people into a
religiousness (a way of living that incorporates an interpretation of the purpose of life with ethics and aesthetics).
The reason you are argued against and that you seek out and find those who argue so vehemently with you is because you cannot understand, you refuse to understand, the aspect of your preaching doctrines that no longer work.
So we (I mean Occidental peoples but perhaps all peoples) are in an enormous paradigm shift where -- really -- it has become extremely difficult to define what god
is.
Re: Christianity
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:24 pm
by Harbal
Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 4:54 pm
If I may I'd like to gift you a copy of the first English edition!
Thank you, that will fit in splendidly with my collection of foreigners of whom I have never heard, will never be interested in, nor will ever read.
Yet again, you confirm that my utter contempt for you is not misplaced.
Re: Christianity
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:28 pm
by Alexis Jacobi
Harbal wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:19 pm
Yet again, confirmation that my utter contempt for you is not misplaced.
It is
perfectly placed! There is no better locus for your contempt. I invite you to probe the depth of it. I am available 24/7/364 (I do wish to have one day off you understand).
Amending Amos:
"But let scorn run down like water, and contempt like a mighty stream."
Re: Christianity
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:31 pm
by Alexis Jacobi
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:12 pm
You can take both to the bank.
More
commodity lingo! Luv it.
Re: Christianity
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:50 pm
by Belinda
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:16 pm
Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 2:06 pm
But there is a referent for God as a human concept.
That's a "delusion," just framed in other words.
As for human beings, and how wonderful they are, they killed well over 140 million of their kin in the most brutal of ways in the last century alone.
Ask yourself, if humans are so wonderful and are progressing morally all the time, how come our most recent century was by far, by orders of magnitude actually, our
worst?
So much for "moral progress."
Humans are not "so wonderful", nor are humans "progressing morally all the time". But they are all we have to work with. The human search for wisdom is aimed at the best way ahead so that as many humans as possible are fully human enough to be good.
Your preferred way is to follow the directions of an authority. I prefer the liberal way that trusts individual freedom rather than any self styled authority.
Re: Christianity
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:57 pm
by Immanuel Can
Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:23 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:13 pm
Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 12:30 pm
You Immanuel have attached...
Not I.
Read the Word of God. Argue with Him, not with me.
As it happens I do not have to argue with him.
Not yet, anyway.
Romans 14:11
it is written:
“As I live, says the Lord, to Me every knee will bow,
And every tongue will confess to God.”
Re: Christianity
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 6:04 pm
by Immanuel Can
Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:50 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:16 pm
Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 2:06 pm
But there is a referent for God as a human concept.
That's a "delusion," just framed in other words.
As for human beings, and how wonderful they are, they killed well over 140 million of their kin in the most brutal of ways in the last century alone.
Ask yourself, if humans are so wonderful and are progressing morally all the time, how come our most recent century was by far, by orders of magnitude actually, our
worst?
So much for "moral progress."
Humans are not "so wonderful", nor are humans "progressing morally all the time". But they are all we have to work with.
Then we are doomed. That much is clearly evident.
Our technology is progressing very rapidly. The power of our abilities is vastly outstripping our wisdom. And when you put dangerous tools in the hands of children, they what happens is that they die.
If nothing else, COVID should have taught us all that. We cannot control our devilish interest in manipulating diseases. They get away from us, and devastate the world. But is that worse than our nuclear abilities? Or what we're now doing with AI? Or our massive, arrogant, incompetent governmental interventions in all areas of life that are devastating the lives of millions, particularly in the developing world, even now? Have you seen any pictures of Ukraine lately? Do you know what "the world's greatest economy" is doing to the Uighurs as we speak?
If you look to man to rescue you, you're looking to the same dark heart that invented Auschwitz, pollution, pornography, war and super-bacteria.
I'd say, "good luck with that," but there isn't even a reasonable prospect of luck in such a hope.
Re: Christianity
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 6:12 pm
by Gary Childress
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:12 pm
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:07 am
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 6:53 am
One day, I promise you, you'll be regretting you ever said that. That's all I can tell you now.
Maybe he will, maybe he won't. I have yet to seriously regret any of my rants concerning God.
It's not the Judgment yet, Gary.
God is very patient, as the 2 Peter,
"not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." And in the same context, it reminds us,
"but the Day of the Lord will come."
You can take both to the bank.
Judge me for what, hurting his feelings because he created a messed up world for me. Sorry. Can't say I care about God's feelings any more than mine have been spared.
Re: Christianity
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 6:20 pm
by phyllo
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 6:04 pm
Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:50 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:16 pm
That's a "delusion," just framed in other words.
As for human beings, and how wonderful they are, they killed well over 140 million of their kin in the most brutal of ways in the last century alone.
Ask yourself, if humans are so wonderful and are progressing morally all the time, how come our most recent century was by far, by orders of magnitude actually, our
worst?
So much for "moral progress."
Humans are not "so wonderful", nor are humans "progressing morally all the time". But they are all we have to work with.
Then we are doomed. That much is clearly evident.
Our technology is progressing very rapidly. The power of our abilities is vastly outstripping our wisdom. And when you put dangerous tools in the hands of children, they what happens is that they die.
If nothing else, COVID should have taught us all that. We cannot control our devilish interest in manipulating diseases. They get away from us, and devastate the world. But is that worse than our nuclear abilities? Or what we're now doing with AI? Or our massive, arrogant, incompetent governmental interventions in all areas of life that are devastating the lives of millions, particularly in the developing world, even now? Have you seen any pictures of Ukraine lately? Do you know what "the world's greatest economy" is doing to the Uighurs as we speak?
If you look to man to rescue you, you're looking to the same dark heart that invented Auschwitz, pollution, pornography, war and super-bacteria.
I'd say, "good luck with that," but there isn't even a reasonable prospect of luck in such a hope.
Conveniently forgetting that God created humans just as they are.
Re: Christianity
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 6:33 pm
by Immanuel Can
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 6:12 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:12 pm
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:07 am
Maybe he will, maybe he won't. I have yet to seriously regret any of my rants concerning God.
It's not the Judgment yet, Gary.
God is very patient, as the 2 Peter,
"not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." And in the same context, it reminds us,
"but the Day of the Lord will come."
You can take both to the bank.
Judge me for what, hurting his feelings because he created a messed up world for me.
Well, we'll see. If you are a total innocent, then that will become clear, and you will be vindicated, of course. If, on the other hand, you're "spinning" your own history a bit here, that also will become plain. But the crucial question will not be, "Was Gary pure as the driven snow, or somewhat shady sometimes?" because if we're honest, we've all been quite a bit more than shady sometimes, but "What did Gary do about his sin?" and consequently, "What is Gary's personal relationship to God, at the moment of judgment?"
You seem to be saying, in regard to the latter question, that you haven't bothered to have one at all...save, perhaps, an accusatory, self-excusing and antagonistic one.
But when all's said and done, that's going to be the issue. So says the Word of God.
Re: Christianity
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 6:33 pm
by Gary Childress
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:06 pm
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:58 am
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 4:49 am
Not at all. I'm simply telling you what the word literally means, and what it implies. That's all.
Why would that be?
Because I assume you've never been dead or outside the universe.
That's what you think "transcendence" means? Honest question.
By transcend I mean the sense of the word of "beyond" or outside of. Maybe you're thinking of how transcend is used in the "transcendental" movement?
Re: Christianity
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 6:34 pm
by Immanuel Can
phyllo wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 6:20 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 6:04 pm
Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:50 pm
Humans are not "so wonderful", nor are humans "progressing morally all the time". But they are all we have to work with.
Then we are doomed. That much is clearly evident.
Our technology is progressing very rapidly. The power of our abilities is vastly outstripping our wisdom. And when you put dangerous tools in the hands of children, they what happens is that they die.
If nothing else, COVID should have taught us all that. We cannot control our devilish interest in manipulating diseases. They get away from us, and devastate the world. But is that worse than our nuclear abilities? Or what we're now doing with AI? Or our massive, arrogant, incompetent governmental interventions in all areas of life that are devastating the lives of millions, particularly in the developing world, even now? Have you seen any pictures of Ukraine lately? Do you know what "the world's greatest economy" is doing to the Uighurs as we speak?
If you look to man to rescue you, you're looking to the same dark heart that invented Auschwitz, pollution, pornography, war and super-bacteria.
I'd say, "good luck with that," but there isn't even a reasonable prospect of luck in such a hope.
Conveniently forgetting that God created humans just as they are.
Actually, no, He didn't.
Biblically, He created them with two features: moral innocence and volitional freedom. What they did with the latter is what accounts for the failure of the former.
Re: Christianity
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 6:36 pm
by Immanuel Can
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 6:33 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:06 pm
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:58 am
Because I assume you've never been dead or outside the universe.
That's what you think "transcendence" means? Honest question.
By transcend I mean the sense of the word of "beyond" or outside of. Maybe you're thinking of how transcend is used in the "transcendental" movement?
I was trying to figure out how
you meant it, Gary.
It wasn't my coinage here. It was your own choice to employ that particular word. I would have used different language.
Re: Christianity
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 6:41 pm
by phyllo
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 6:34 pm
phyllo wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 6:20 pm
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 6:04 pm
Then we are doomed. That much is clearly evident.
Our technology is progressing very rapidly. The power of our abilities is vastly outstripping our wisdom. And when you put dangerous tools in the hands of children, they what happens is that they die.
If nothing else, COVID should have taught us all that. We cannot control our devilish interest in manipulating diseases. They get away from us, and devastate the world. But is that worse than our nuclear abilities? Or what we're now doing with AI? Or our massive, arrogant, incompetent governmental interventions in all areas of life that are devastating the lives of millions, particularly in the developing world, even now? Have you seen any pictures of Ukraine lately? Do you know what "the world's greatest economy" is doing to the Uighurs as we speak?
If you look to man to rescue you, you're looking to the same dark heart that invented Auschwitz, pollution, pornography, war and super-bacteria.
I'd say, "good luck with that," but there isn't even a reasonable prospect of luck in such a hope.
Conveniently forgetting that God created humans just as they are.
Actually, no, He didn't.
Biblically, He created them with two features: moral innocence and volitional freedom. What they did with the latter is what accounts for the failure of the former.
That's nonsense.
Nobody said "We want to be petty and violent" and God replied " Okay, then that's how I'm going to make you."
These were all God's design decisions.
If a table is wobbly, you blame the carpenter, not the table.