The Philosophy Discussion Forum

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2026 10:00 pm...the universal model means the medical system degenerates, and then the country goes bankrupt.

Walker wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2026 12:52 am AI changes the view.
Where do the cost savings created by AI, through reduced need for human labor and paycheck, go?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2026 12:06 am

phyllo wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2026 10:59 pm

I've said this several times now: at the moment, I have no particular solution, and neither does anybody else.

Let's just leave it at "you have no particular solution".

Great. You've got a solution! Let's have it.

Run your numbers by us.

Will Bouwman wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2026 8:09 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2026 10:00 pm...the universal model means the medical system degenerates, and then the country goes bankrupt.

In the entire history of humanity, this has happened precisely never.

The first move towards a national health insurance system was launched in Germany in 1883, with the Sickness Insurance Law. Industrial employers were mandated to provide injury and illness insurance for their low-wage workers, and the system was funded and administered by employees and employers through "sick funds", which were drawn from deductions in workers' wages and from employers' contributions. This social health insurance model, named the Bismarck Model after Prussian Chancellor Otto von Bismarck, was the first form of universal care in modern times.[17]

Other countries soon began to follow suit. In the United Kingdom, the National Insurance Act 1911 provided coverage for primary care (but not specialist or hospital care) for wage earners, covering about one-third of the population. The Russian Empire established a similar system in 1912, and other industrialized countries began following suit. By the 1930s, similar systems existed in virtually all of Western and Central Europe. Japan introduced an employee health insurance law in 1927, expanding further upon it in 1935 and 1940.

Following the Russian Revolution of 1917, the Bolsheviks established the world's first fully free and universal health care system in Soviet Russia in July 1918.[18][19] The system was highly centralized, and while nominally any person regardless of his status was covered, the actual coverage, especially in the more remote and impoverished areas was virtually non-existent.

In New Zealand, a universal health care system was created in a series of steps, from 1938 to 1941.[20][21] In Australia, the state of Queensland introduced a free public hospital system in 1946.

Following World War II, universal health care systems began to be set up around the world. On July 5, 1948, the United Kingdom launched its universal National Health Service. Universal health care was next introduced in the Nordic countries of Sweden (1955),[22] Iceland (1956),[23] Norway (1956),[24] Denmark (1961)[25] and Finland (1964).[26] Universal health insurance was introduced in Japan in 1961, and in Canada through stages, starting with the province of Saskatchewan in 1962, followed by the rest of Canada from 1968 to 1972.[20][27] A public healthcare system was introduced in Egypt following the Egyptian revolution of 1952. Centralized public healthcare systems were set up in the Eastern bloc countries. The Soviet Union extended universal health care to its rural residents in 1969.[20][28] Kuwait and Bahrain introduced their universal healthcare systems in 1950 and 1957 respectively (prior to independence).[29] Italy introduced its Servizio Sanitario Nazionale (National Health Service) in 1978. Universal health insurance was implemented in Australia in 1975 with the Medibank, which led to universal coverage under the current Medicare system from 1984.[citation needed]

From the 1970s to the 2000s, Western European countries began introducing universal coverage, most of them building upon previous health insurance programs to cover the whole population. For example, France built upon its 1928 national health insurance system, with subsequent legislation covering a larger and larger percentage of the population, until the remaining 1% of the population that was uninsured received coverage in 2000.[30][31] Single payer healthcare systems were introduced in Finland (1972), Portugal (1979), Cyprus (1980), Spain (1986) and Iceland (1990). Switzerland introduced a universal healthcare system based on an insurance mandate in 1994.[32][29] In addition, universal health coverage was introduced in some Asian countries, including Malaysia (1980s),[33] South Korea (1989), Taiwan (1995), Singapore (1993), Israel (1995) and Thailand (2001).

Following the collapse of the Soviet Union, Russia retained and reformed its universal health care system,[34] as did other now-independent former Soviet republics and Eastern bloc countries.

Beyond the 1990s, many countries in Latin America, the Caribbean, Africa and the Asia-Pacific region, including developing countries, took steps to bring their populations under universal health coverage, including China[35] and Brazil's SUS[36] which improved coverage up to 80% of the population.[37] Taiwan implemented its system in 1995.[38] India introduced a tax-payer funded decentralised universal healthcare system as well as comprehensive public and private health insurances that helped reduce mortality rates drastically and improved healthcare infrastructure across the country dramatically.[39] A 2012 study examined progress being made by these countries, focusing on nine in particular: Ghana, Rwanda, Nigeria, Mali, Kenya, Indonesia, the Philippines and Vietnam.[40][41]

Currently, most industrialized countries and many developing countries operate some form of publicly funded health care with universal coverage as the goal. According to the National Academy of Medicine and others, the United States is the only wealthy, industrialized nation that does not provide universal health care. The only forms of government-provided healthcare available are Medicare (for elderly patients above age 65 as well as people with disabilities), Medicaid (for low-income people),[42][43] the Children's Health Insurance Program (for children in families of modest income, but too high to qualify for Medicaid), the Military Health System (active, reserve, and retired military personnel and dependants), and the Indian Health Service (members of federally recognized Native American tribes).

phyllo wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2026 1:58 pm 72 out of 195 countries have some sort of universal health care

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2026 1:46 pm

Will Bouwman wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2026 8:09 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2026 10:00 pm...the universal model means the medical system degenerates, and then the country goes bankrupt.

In the entire history of humanity, this has happened precisely never.

We're watching it happen in real time.

Will Bouwman wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2026 2:22 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2026 1:46 pm

Will Bouwman wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2026 8:09 am
In the entire history of humanity, this has happened precisely never.

We're watching it happen in real time.

What facts support this claim?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2026 2:32 pm

Will Bouwman wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2026 2:22 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2026 1:46 pm
We're watching it happen in real time.

What facts support this claim?

I'm living it.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2026 3:05 pm...the experience of one man isn't data, of course.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2026 2:32 pmI see it in every encounter with the supposedly "universal" system. And economically, the numbers are dire.

phyllo wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2026 2:42 pm Maybe the Canadian system sucks and other systems don't suck.

Will Bouwman wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2026 2:41 pm What are those numbers?