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Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2026 5:03 pm
Consciousness is not a material property, just like "mind" and "brain" are not the same. Determinism allows the material to exist, but simply expresses gratuitous disbelief in the immaterial real.
Ironically, there's no "person" to express such a thing, because "personhood" is an immaterial property.
True. Consciousness is not a material property.
Here's the key: is it a REAL property? Is it a REAL thing?
If it is, Determinism isn't true.
However, brain and consciousness are clearly connected.
Yes, but not in any conventional way. It's a marvel how the mind keeps operating when the brain is, say, injured, dysfunctional, incorrectly formed...experts have a word for it: they call it "neuroplasticity." But that doesn't even quite capture it. There are actually people who are devoid of large portions of brain material, yet who are as intelligent as you or me. How is that possible, if "brain" were the same as "mind'? It wouldn't be.
It's possible because the brain is able to overcome deficiencies by using other physical parts to make up for deficiencies or damage. It is constantly connecting and reconnecting. However, brain damage late in life tends to leave permanent mental issues. Plasticity, lessens as we grow older. It's very possible that complete decay of the brain would leave us mentally non-existent and be the end of us.
As to whether the mind outlives the brain...that's a different question, too.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Apr 21, 2026 11:45 pm
It's certainly settled, one way or the other.
Maybe. Maybe not.
Not maybe.
Something is the case. Either there's an afterlife, or there's not. There's no half-way measures about that.
Yes. Something is the case, however, if there's no existence of our mental experiences after death, then it is never "settled". No one returns from death to tell the living whether there is an "afterlife" or not and if there is no "afterlife" then we ourselves will never "find out" or have the matter "settled" for us either. It is an unknown. A 'black box', if you like.
Something is the case. Either there's an afterlife, or there's not. There's no half-way measures about that.
Yes. Something is the case, however, if there's no existence of our mental experiences after death, then it is never "settled".
Oh, it's settled, Gary. You can be sure of that.
The fact that you don't know doesn't change that.
No one returns from death to tell the living whether there is an "afterlife" or not and if there is no "afterlife" then we ourselves will never "find out" or have the matter "settled" for us either. It is an unknown. A 'black box', if you like.
Except for the Resurrection. But you'll ignore that, I'm sure.
Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2026 12:40 am
Not maybe.
Something is the case. Either there's an afterlife, or there's not. There's no half-way measures about that.
Yes. Something is the case, however, if there's no existence of our mental experiences after death, then it is never "settled".
Oh, it's settled, Gary. You can be sure of that.
The fact that you don't know doesn't change that.
No one returns from death to tell the living whether there is an "afterlife" or not and if there is no "afterlife" then we ourselves will never "find out" or have the matter "settled" for us either. It is an unknown. A 'black box', if you like.
Except for the Resurrection. But you'll ignore that, I'm sure.
If there was a resurrection of Jesus. No one knows if there was or not.
Yes. Something is the case, however, if there's no existence of our mental experiences after death, then it is never "settled".
Oh, it's settled, Gary. You can be sure of that.
The fact that you don't know doesn't change that.
No one returns from death to tell the living whether there is an "afterlife" or not and if there is no "afterlife" then we ourselves will never "find out" or have the matter "settled" for us either. It is an unknown. A 'black box', if you like.
Except for the Resurrection. But you'll ignore that, I'm sure.
If there was a resurrection of Jesus. No one knows if there was or not.
