Philosophy Now Forum

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 30, 2023 7:49 pm

Skepdick wrote: ↑Thu Mar 30, 2023 12:31 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 30, 2023 12:15 pm I wonder what our charming resident communist will have to say about this, from the UK Communist party:

''The Communist Party rejects gender self-ID as the basis for sex- based entitlements in law to women’s single-sex rights, spaces and facilities.''

Wow, they must be 'extreme right wing neo-nazis'

Just goes to show that facts are facts. Science is science. The truth doesn't have a 'side'. Clearly someone in the UK Communist party actually has a brain.

I wonder if morons will stop referring to misogynistic, bat-shit insane wokie loons as 'the left' (I won't be holding my breath).

As far as I can tell you are all communists/nazis. There's no difference - both ideologies wanted a centrally planned, well regimented and strongly normalising society.

I mean, I grew up in an actual Communist country and I remember exactly what it was like being told what to think, what to say, what to believe. Who to be.

You cunts are just stepping it up now: socially mandated identities. Equality baby - the fewer differences between people, the better!

Except that it's not men who are being erased, arsehole. Nice copy-pasting btw It's not men's sports that are being hijacked. It's not men being made unsafe in men's spaces. Men aren't being referred to as 'prostate owners'.
Interesting that you say 'the fewer differences between humans the better'. Doesn't really go with the 'embrace diversity' force-fed ideology does it? So the aim is to to erase the concept of biological sex altogether by gaslighting populations and recruiting the most vulnerable and easily-manipulated people--children--into your bizarre cult. Your position is completely nonsensical. No one is saying men can't pretend they are women (and 'interestingly' men can ONLY do this by stereotyping women). They've always had a fetish for doing that. It has nothing to do with this.
The irony is strong here. YOU are complaining about being told what to think and do? That 70 year old woman who had her skull fractured didn't get much of a chance to say what she thinks and says.
And naturally you missed the point of course. I'm merely pointing out that labelling one side or the other as 'left' or 'right' is water-muddying bullshit. Idiots are calling the misogynistic gender-cultists 'communists'. Gender-cultists are calling everyone who disagrees with them 'neo-nazi fascists'.
There are no conversations being had whatsoever--just childish labelling like TERFs, specifically to demonise and dehumanise opposition. A few hundred years ago it would have beens 'witches' instead of TERFs. The sentiment is the same.

You win the bullshit bingo!

Interesting how, despite there being '100+genders', when it comes to 'gender changing' it's always between male or female

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Fri Mar 31, 2023 10:44 pm Interesting how, despite there being '100+genders', when it comes to 'gender changing' it's always between male or female

Yes. And how does one need to "change" something that's merely a social construction anyway? If gender's no big deal, so it can be swapped out on a whim, then there's no other gender worth "wanting." That, too, would be a whim.

Since gender is allegedly nothing but an unreal "construct," people should then just change their minds, and the entire necessary transformation would already be achieved: what need for physical alterations, then? Change the construct, and the matter's over.

It's all lunatic.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Mar 31, 2023 10:54 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Fri Mar 31, 2023 10:44 pm Interesting how, despite there being '100+genders', when it comes to 'gender changing' it's always between male or female

Yes. And how does one need to "change" something that's merely a social construction anyway? If gender's no big deal, so it can be swapped out on a whim, then there's no other gender worth "wanting." That, too, would be a whim.

Since gender is allegedly nothing but an unreal "construct," people should then just change their minds, and the entire necessary transformation would already be achieved: what need for physical alterations, then? Change the construct, and the matter's over.

It's all lunatic.

Exactly. There are so many contradictions and paradoxes in their unsupportable position it's no wonder they have to resort to violence and beating up old ladies to silence criticism.
It's no longer a 'trans' movement at all, but something much, much darker.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Fri Mar 31, 2023 11:03 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Mar 31, 2023 10:54 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Fri Mar 31, 2023 10:44 pm Interesting how, despite there being '100+genders', when it comes to 'gender changing' it's always between male or female

Yes. And how does one need to "change" something that's merely a social construction anyway? If gender's no big deal, so it can be swapped out on a whim, then there's no other gender worth "wanting." That, too, would be a whim.

Since gender is allegedly nothing but an unreal "construct," people should then just change their minds, and the entire necessary transformation would already be achieved: what need for physical alterations, then? Change the construct, and the matter's over.

It's all lunatic.

Exactly. There are so many contradictions and paradoxes in their unsupportable position it's no wonder they have to resort to violence and beating up old ladies to silence criticism.
It's no longer a 'trans' movement at all, but something much, much darker.

You mean, like shooting up schools? Or just like grooming children, or like persuading confused young people that they would be happier if they permanently mutilated themselves?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Mar 31, 2023 11:19 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Fri Mar 31, 2023 11:03 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Mar 31, 2023 10:54 pm
Yes. And how does one need to "change" something that's merely a social construction anyway? If gender's no big deal, so it can be swapped out on a whim, then there's no other gender worth "wanting." That, too, would be a whim.

Since gender is allegedly nothing but an unreal "construct," people should then just change their minds, and the entire necessary transformation would already be achieved: what need for physical alterations, then? Change the construct, and the matter's over.

It's all lunatic.

Exactly. There are so many contradictions and paradoxes in their unsupportable position it's no wonder they have to resort to violence and beating up old ladies to silence criticism.
It's no longer a 'trans' movement at all, but something much, much darker.

You mean, like shooting up schools? Or just like grooming children, or like persuading confused young people that they would be happier if they permanently mutilated themselves?

All of that, and about 'who' exactly is sponsoring the movement. It has millions at its disposal.

This movement to 'protect the vulnerable and oppressed 'trans' community' sure has a hell of a lot of money and power for such a 'marginalised and persecuted' group. What are these 'rights' they are 'fighting for' that they think they don't have?
These 'powerless, persecuted' people have control of govts., mainstream media. It's unbelievable. A misogynistic thug who was largely responsible for inciting the violence inflicted on women in Auckland NZ has just been awarded 'Young NZer of the Year' which is sponsored by the state-owned bank. That's not a 'made up conspiracy'. It's an actual occurrence in the past week. NZ parliament (the home of central govt.) has the 'trans' flag flying as we speak.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sat Apr 01, 2023 1:20 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Mar 31, 2023 11:19 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Fri Mar 31, 2023 11:03 pm

Exactly. There are so many contradictions and paradoxes in their unsupportable position it's no wonder they have to resort to violence and beating up old ladies to silence criticism.
It's no longer a 'trans' movement at all, but something much, much darker.

You mean, like shooting up schools? Or just like grooming children, or like persuading confused young people that they would be happier if they permanently mutilated themselves?

All of that, and about 'who' exactly is sponsoring the movement. It has millions at its disposal.

This movement to 'protect the vulnerable and oppressed 'trans' community' sure has a hell of a lot of money and power for such a 'marginalised and persecuted' group. What are these 'rights' they are 'fighting for' that they think they don't have?
These 'powerless, persecuted' people have control of govts., mainstream media. It's unbelievable. A misogynistic thug who was largely responsible for inciting the violence inflicted on women in Auckland NZ has just been awarded 'Young NZer of the Year' which is sponsored by the state-owned bank. That's not a 'made up conspiracy'. It's an actual occurrence in the past week. NZ parliament (the home of central govt.) has the 'trans' flag flying as we speak.

Well, and in the US, in the wake of a murdering of children by a deranged transer, the first thing Biden had to say about the whole thing was a joke about his wife, and about how much he loves ice cream, and how cute the children at his speech looked. It's unfathomable. If it had been, say, a deranged Trumpist who shot up a bunch of transers, you can be sure that the occasion would have been treated in a very, very different way. But the lives of those opposed to trans-dogma are not worth anything to the Left, and the crimes of anybody trans are simply swept aside...

Just as what you were saying about women's sports and privacy; women's rights are nothing once transers enter the arena. And the explanation for why is undeniably "dark," as you say.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Apr 01, 2023 5:17 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sat Apr 01, 2023 1:20 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Mar 31, 2023 11:19 pm
You mean, like shooting up schools? Or just like grooming children, or like persuading confused young people that they would be happier if they permanently mutilated themselves?

All of that, and about 'who' exactly is sponsoring the movement. It has millions at its disposal.

This movement to 'protect the vulnerable and oppressed 'trans' community' sure has a hell of a lot of money and power for such a 'marginalised and persecuted' group. What are these 'rights' they are 'fighting for' that they think they don't have?
These 'powerless, persecuted' people have control of govts., mainstream media. It's unbelievable. A misogynistic thug who was largely responsible for inciting the violence inflicted on women in Auckland NZ has just been awarded 'Young NZer of the Year' which is sponsored by the state-owned bank. That's not a 'made up conspiracy'. It's an actual occurrence in the past week. NZ parliament (the home of central govt.) has the 'trans' flag flying as we speak.

Well, and in the US, in the wake of a murdering of children by a deranged transer, the first thing Biden had to say about the whole thing was a joke about his wife, and about how much he loves ice cream, and how cute the children at his speech looked. It's unfathomable. If it had been, say, a deranged Trumpist who shot up a bunch of transers, you can be sure that the occasion would have been treated in a very, very different way. But the lives of those opposed to trans-dogma are not worth anything to the Left, and the crimes of anybody trans are simply swept aside...

Just as what you were saying about women's sports and privacy; women's rights are nothing once transers enter the arena. And the explanation for why is undeniably "dark," as you say.

I saw Biden doing that. One of the creepiest things I've ever seen. What is wrong with that man?

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sat Apr 01, 2023 5:43 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Apr 01, 2023 5:17 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sat Apr 01, 2023 1:20 am

All of that, and about 'who' exactly is sponsoring the movement. It has millions at its disposal.

This movement to 'protect the vulnerable and oppressed 'trans' community' sure has a hell of a lot of money and power for such a 'marginalised and persecuted' group. What are these 'rights' they are 'fighting for' that they think they don't have?
These 'powerless, persecuted' people have control of govts., mainstream media. It's unbelievable. A misogynistic thug who was largely responsible for inciting the violence inflicted on women in Auckland NZ has just been awarded 'Young NZer of the Year' which is sponsored by the state-owned bank. That's not a 'made up conspiracy'. It's an actual occurrence in the past week. NZ parliament (the home of central govt.) has the 'trans' flag flying as we speak.

Well, and in the US, in the wake of a murdering of children by a deranged transer, the first thing Biden had to say about the whole thing was a joke about his wife, and about how much he loves ice cream, and how cute the children at his speech looked. It's unfathomable. If it had been, say, a deranged Trumpist who shot up a bunch of transers, you can be sure that the occasion would have been treated in a very, very different way. But the lives of those opposed to trans-dogma are not worth anything to the Left, and the crimes of anybody trans are simply swept aside...

Just as what you were saying about women's sports and privacy; women's rights are nothing once transers enter the arena. And the explanation for why is undeniably "dark," as you say.

I saw Biden doing that. One of the creepiest things I've ever seen. What is wrong with that man?

Senility. He doesn't know what is appropriate, or even where he really is, most of the time.

I don't think there's anyone on either side of the political spectrum who has any doubt about that. It's just that admitting it would jeopardize the control of things presently enjoyed by the Democrats, so it's something they'll never say aloud. But around 70 of the Democrat voters recently polled say he should not run for a second term. That's really high. And it shows that they know what we all know about Biden...he was never competent in the first place, and is even more senile now than when he was 'elected' as if he were 'the most popular president in US history.'

What's back of all the trans stuff, though, is Neo-Marxism. Anything that destroys the status quo and leads to disordering existing institutions is "good" according to this dogma; and nothing so disorders young people as sexual disorder, so all manner of abusive causes become celebrated and encouraged -- drag queen story hours for children, CRT in schools, LGBTQ propaganda, training in racist resentment, transing, and soon, what they call "intergenerational encounters" (that's their term: they mean pedophilia). Whatever upsets and confuses children is, in their view, a desirable instrument to promote the next Marxist revolution.

Back of all this trans stuff, therefore, is their declaration of intent to create a generation of disturbed children who are incapable of living within existing society, and so have to destroy it. See https://newdiscourses.com/2021/11/groom ... education/.

bro I wish it were that excitingly complex but I'm afraid it's much simpler. the frequency of these abnormal (I didn't call them 'wrong') social trends is increasing proportionate to the amount of social discord and conflict capitalism/consumerism creates in society. and this has ab.so.lute.ly nothing to do with Marxism. that's irony number one.

irony number two is that the social democrat liberals don't give a flying fuck about any of the social justice bullshit they run on. it's all part of the job. they wanna keep getting that $130,000 a year salary or whatever it is so they gotta stay in office.

so when some emotional mess reject becomes and incel or a fag or wants to change his gender, or some lazy welfare black woman with seven kids is complaining becuz she isn't getting free housing, somebody's gonna come along and make a buck off it. and that's what the democrats do. appease the lower classes and oppressed minorities to get their vote.

promethean75 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 01, 2023 5:29 pm ...this has ab.so.lute.ly nothing to do with Marxism.

Actually, it very much does. Sorry to contradict, but check the whole website, if you need more info. There's a ton of evidence there, much of it quoting the major Neo-Marxist theorists, in fact, who explicitly say this stuff. It's undeniable. Most people, even those who claim to be "Socialists," don't know what Marxism really is, though, so they can't recognize its moves in the Neos.

irony number two is that the social democrat liberals don't give a flying fuck about any of the social justice bullshit they run on. it's all part of the job. they wanna keep getting that $130,000 a year salary or whatever it is so they gotta stay in office.

The truth is, it's a mix, I think. You're certainly right that there are totally cynical politicians who merely want to keep power, and who will use any pretext to do it..."Social Justice" being the nutty ideology of the day. But there are clearly others who are in it because they actually believe this stuff, and would even risk trashing their own careers to serve it. AOC and "the Pack" are clearly of the latter type, and I suspect Biden, Gore and Pelosi have always been an exemplar of the former. But whatever their motives, it ends up at the same place: genuflecting before the CRT altar.

...that's what the democrats do. appease the lower classes and oppressed minorities to get their vote.

"Appease"?

They don't give the minorities they manipulate the things they promise. Look at cities like Chicago, Baltimore, Detroit, Seattle, Los Angeles, Atlanta...they've had Democrat governance for most of the last century; and what has it gotten for the suffering, poor or minorities? Their neighbourhoods are poorer and more run-down than ever, more desperate than ever, with worse schools and worse infrastructure, more homelessness, and more infested with drugs and crime than ever. "Appease" with what?

No, it's not "appeasement" the Dems use: it's the empty promise of handouts that, in truth, will not be coming. They create psychological dependency, tell the folks that government, Dem government, is their only hope, and then do absolutely nothing actually to improve the living conditions of the people they're using. That's their modus operandi, every time.

And, of course, transers are an example of just this thing. Those among them who are disturbed and mentally ill are merely used by the Democrats for talking points and to show their own virtue of "standing up for the weak." But, in contrast, detransitioners are not merely silenced but outright villified; and anybody who offers a potential "transer" to help them deal with their dysmorphia (whether a psychologist, counsellor, teacher, doctor or whatever) and come to love themselves as they are rather than tearing their own body apart, is roundly condemned as a "conversion therapist" and indicted by the law as promoting "hate."

Like all minorities, transitioners are only celebrated by the Dems because they're politically useful. They have no interest in seeing them come to be well-adjusted, happy people. They do have an interest in seeing them persist as miserable, resentful, convinced they are being "oppressed" whenever they are faced with facts, and convinced the Dems are their only friends -- and ready to vote and take all sympathetic others with them, of course.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Apr 01, 2023 2:28 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sat Apr 01, 2023 5:43 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Apr 01, 2023 5:17 am
Well, and in the US, in the wake of a murdering of children by a deranged transer, the first thing Biden had to say about the whole thing was a joke about his wife, and about how much he loves ice cream, and how cute the children at his speech looked. It's unfathomable. If it had been, say, a deranged Trumpist who shot up a bunch of transers, you can be sure that the occasion would have been treated in a very, very different way. But the lives of those opposed to trans-dogma are not worth anything to the Left, and the crimes of anybody trans are simply swept aside...

Just as what you were saying about women's sports and privacy; women's rights are nothing once transers enter the arena. And the explanation for why is undeniably "dark," as you say.

I saw Biden doing that. One of the creepiest things I've ever seen. What is wrong with that man?

Senility. He doesn't know what is appropriate, or even where he really is, most of the time.

I don't think there's anyone on either side of the political spectrum who has any doubt about that. It's just that admitting it would jeopardize the control of things presently enjoyed by the Democrats, so it's something they'll never say aloud. But around 70 of the Democrat voters recently polled say he should not run for a second term. That's really high. And it shows that they know what we all know about Biden...he was never competent in the first place, and is even more senile now than when he was 'elected' as if he were 'the most popular president in US history.'

What's back of all the trans stuff, though, is Neo-Marxism. Anything that destroys the status quo and leads to disordering existing institutions is "good" according to this dogma; and nothing so disorders young people as sexual disorder, so all manner of abusive causes become celebrated and encouraged -- drag queen story hours for children, CRT in schools, LGBTQ propaganda, training in racist resentment, transing, and soon, what they call "intergenerational encounters" (that's their term: they mean pedophilia). Whatever upsets and confuses children is, in their view, a desirable instrument to promote the next Marxist revolution.

Back of all this trans stuff, therefore, is their declaration of intent to create a generation of disturbed children who are incapable of living within existing society, and so have to destroy it. See https://newdiscourses.com/2021/11/groom ... education/.

'Neo-Marxism' is just a meaningless buzzword. I've also read that it's pure capitalism, which is far more logical. There is obviously huge money to be made out of this mass hysteria. It makes the 'satanic cult' hysteria of the 1980s/1990s look civilised and rational.
I can't post them here, but there are videos of people being viciously assaulted right in front of the police for voicing a different opinion, and the police are clealy seen just standing around smirking. When you have Govts. and the police supporting the insanity then there is something very strange going on, unless it's because ALL of those people truly ARE caught up in this global mass hysteria--actually quite feasible with the rise of the internet. It's the Salem witch hunts on steroids.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sat Apr 01, 2023 7:34 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Apr 01, 2023 2:28 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sat Apr 01, 2023 5:43 am

I saw Biden doing that. One of the creepiest things I've ever seen. What is wrong with that man?

Senility. He doesn't know what is appropriate, or even where he really is, most of the time.

I don't think there's anyone on either side of the political spectrum who has any doubt about that. It's just that admitting it would jeopardize the control of things presently enjoyed by the Democrats, so it's something they'll never say aloud. But around 70 of the Democrat voters recently polled say he should not run for a second term. That's really high. And it shows that they know what we all know about Biden...he was never competent in the first place, and is even more senile now than when he was 'elected' as if he were 'the most popular president in US history.'

What's back of all the trans stuff, though, is Neo-Marxism. Anything that destroys the status quo and leads to disordering existing institutions is "good" according to this dogma; and nothing so disorders young people as sexual disorder, so all manner of abusive causes become celebrated and encouraged -- drag queen story hours for children, CRT in schools, LGBTQ propaganda, training in racist resentment, transing, and soon, what they call "intergenerational encounters" (that's their term: they mean pedophilia). Whatever upsets and confuses children is, in their view, a desirable instrument to promote the next Marxist revolution.

Back of all this trans stuff, therefore, is their declaration of intent to create a generation of disturbed children who are incapable of living within existing society, and so have to destroy it. See https://newdiscourses.com/2021/11/groom ... education/.

'Neo-Marxism' is just a meaningless buzzword.

Oh, it's far from that...it's a very common ideology right now. CRT, for example, is basically that. BLM was started by three who declare themselves "trained Marxists," to borrow their own words. It's around, alright...and highly influential. The whole WEF dogma centers on government controlling everything, and the abolition of private property -- which Marx declared was the essence of his philosophy.

I've also read that it's pure capitalism,

"Capitalism" is actually a Marxist concept, at least as we now have it. It first appeared in 1850, apparently, then in English, in 1854, in William Thackeray, but Marx has been its real popularizer. It's a term that mistakes a straightforward economic relation for some sort of sinister ideology, an "-ism"...which, of course, was typical of him.

I would put it more simply: people like Biden or Pelosi are simply greedy. They're not ideological people, and tend to be unmotivated by ideas, except to the extent that ideas can be used to extort the public or control things. It's not by accident that all these "defenders of equity" are millionaires and billionaires who own multiple homes and fat stock portfolios, and who fly around in lear jets, preaching to us that we have no right to use coal or gas to save ourselves from freezing to death.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Apr 01, 2023 8:10 pm

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Sat Apr 01, 2023 7:34 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Apr 01, 2023 2:28 pm
Senility. He doesn't know what is appropriate, or even where he really is, most of the time.

I don't think there's anyone on either side of the political spectrum who has any doubt about that. It's just that admitting it would jeopardize the control of things presently enjoyed by the Democrats, so it's something they'll never say aloud. But around 70 of the Democrat voters recently polled say he should not run for a second term. That's really high. And it shows that they know what we all know about Biden...he was never competent in the first place, and is even more senile now than when he was 'elected' as if he were 'the most popular president in US history.'

What's back of all the trans stuff, though, is Neo-Marxism. Anything that destroys the status quo and leads to disordering existing institutions is "good" according to this dogma; and nothing so disorders young people as sexual disorder, so all manner of abusive causes become celebrated and encouraged -- drag queen story hours for children, CRT in schools, LGBTQ propaganda, training in racist resentment, transing, and soon, what they call "intergenerational encounters" (that's their term: they mean pedophilia). Whatever upsets and confuses children is, in their view, a desirable instrument to promote the next Marxist revolution.

Back of all this trans stuff, therefore, is their declaration of intent to create a generation of disturbed children who are incapable of living within existing society, and so have to destroy it. See https://newdiscourses.com/2021/11/groom ... education/.

'Neo-Marxism' is just a meaningless buzzword.

Oh, it's far from that...it's a very common ideology right now. CRT, for example, is basically that. BLM was started by three who declare themselves "trained Marxists," to borrow their own words. It's around, alright...and highly influential. The whole WEF dogma centers on government controlling everything, and the abolition of private property -- which Marx declared was the essence of his philosophy.

I've also read that it's pure capitalism,

"Capitalism" is actually a Marxist concept, at least as we now have it. It first appeared in 1850, apparently, then in English, in 1854, in William Thackeray, but Marx has been its real popularizer. It's a term that mistakes a straightforward economic relation for some sort of sinister ideology, an "-ism"...which, of course, was typical of him.

I would put it more simply: people like Biden or Pelosi are simply greedy. They're not ideological people, and tend to be unmotivated by ideas, except to the extent that ideas can be used to extort the public or control things. It's not by accident that all these "defenders of equity" are millionaires and billionaires who own multiple homes and fat stock portfolios, and who fly around in lear jets, preaching to us that we have no right to use coal or gas to save ourselves from freezing to death.

Was Marx a misogynist who wanted to erase women? What did HE have to say about 'trans' people?
This is very much a 'now' phenomenon with certain similarities to past mass hysteria events. I don't really care what Marx had to say about anything to be honest. What difference does it make?

u can find that material at marxists.org. essays, articles and letters by marx and engels. here's a whole page of hotlinks.

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/w ... /index.htm

Unfortunately the part where Marx and Engels openly encourage homosexual transvestite incel metrosexual pedophiles to read story books to kindergarteners has been omitted. We'll have to take IC's word for it I'm afraid.