Philosophy Now Forum

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun Jan 08, 2023 6:45 pm
However, Joe's demand that I accept his delusion as reality: that there is my business. he's a guy and I won't see or treat him as sumthin' other than a guy (a crazy, horrifically mutilated, guy).

So how do you know this Joe fella, henry?

Harbal wrote: ↑Sun Jan 08, 2023 7:06 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun Jan 08, 2023 6:45 pm
However, Joe's demand that I accept his delusion as reality: that there is my business. he's a guy and I won't see or treat him as sumthin' other than a guy (a crazy, horrifically mutilated, guy).

So how do you know this Joe fella, henry?

Joe is everywhere, flouncin' in his frillies, drippin' ketchup from his hole, tantruming cuz cavemen won't defer.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun Jan 08, 2023 7:29 pm
Joe is everywhere, flouncin' in his frillies, drippin' ketchup from his hole, tantruming cuz cavemen won't defer.

How awful for you, henry.

Harbal wrote: ↑Sun Jan 08, 2023 7:33 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun Jan 08, 2023 7:29 pm
Joe is everywhere, flouncin' in his frillies, drippin' ketchup from his hole, tantruming cuz cavemen won't defer.

How awful for you, henry.

I was thinkin' the same about you.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun Jan 08, 2023 7:40 pm
I was thinkin' the same about you.

I know you were, henry, that's what pals do.

Trajk Logik wrote: ↑Sun Jan 08, 2023 5:46 pm Reality doesn't give a fuck about what you reject or accept.

You speak on reality's behalf now? Would you like me to recommend some mental healthcare practitioners about the voices in your head?

Trajk Logik wrote: ↑Sun Jan 08, 2023 5:46 pm If you murder people, you're a murderer. If you rape people, you're a rapist. It doesn't matter what you think about yourself, or if you are ever caught and convicted. If you engage in these actions, you are these things.

This language thing is proving really difficult for you, isn't it? It's so hard to let go of the stupid ideas you have scattered around your head - like the idea of "identity".

If I murder people, I committed murder, I am not a murderer.
If I rape people, I commited rape. I am not a rapist.

In any case. All of those things are about the socio-sphere. What were you saying about the universe?

Trajk Logik wrote: ↑Sun Jan 08, 2023 5:46 pm Your actions label you as a blithering idiot.

No, that's just you doing it. Not my actions.

Own your fucking words, you twat!

Trajk Logik wrote: ↑Sun Jan 08, 2023 5:46 pm We are not disagreeing. You just aren't comprehending.

I comprehend just fine. It's you who is struggling with the fact that you don't get to determine my identity.

Trajk Logik wrote: ↑Sun Jan 08, 2023 5:46 pm If you didn't accomplish what you use the words for, did you use words correctly?

Maybe. Some times my words are the problem. Some times the thing comprehending my words is the problem.

Trajk Logik wrote: ↑Sun Jan 08, 2023 5:46 pm To use anything, you must have a goal. What was your goal in using words? If no one understands you, did you use words correctly?

You are doing precisely what I expected and predicted you to do. I'd say you understand me just fine.

Trajk Logik wrote: ↑Sun Jan 08, 2023 5:46 pm Witt was a whack. Can worms fly under their own power? Nature has a way of imposing its own rules that prevent certain actions from being taken based on one's physiology.

Nature doesn't have any rules. Rules are mental constructs. Catch up to not being stupid already.

There are limits and constraints. Some flexible - some not so much.

Trajk Logik wrote: ↑Sun Jan 08, 2023 5:46 pm You must know the rules of two languages to then come up with rules to translate them.

Nonsense. You don't seem to have any idea how machine learning works. It's all probabilistic pattern-matching.

Show it enough text together with translations and it "figures out" the rules.

Trajk Logik wrote: ↑Sun Jan 08, 2023 5:46 pm Which part of "If a picture is not a penis, then how does a picture convey to anyone what a penis is?" did you miss?

Which part of "What we say about things is not what they are" is confusing you? That's the whole notion of identity playing tricks on you...

Just because we CALL something a penis it doesn't make it a penis. I could call you a penis.

Trajk Logik wrote: ↑Sun Jan 08, 2023 5:46 pm I don't expect you to answer the question because you are incapable of being intellectually honest. I'm bored with your childish antics.

It's intellectually dishonest to accuse intellectually honest people of intellectual dishonesty.

Practice some charity!

Twat.

Harbal wrote: ↑Sun Jan 08, 2023 7:42 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun Jan 08, 2023 7:40 pm
I was thinkin' the same about you.

I know you were, henry, that's what pals do.

Think of all the shock-horror, agonised wailing and wringing of hands and righteous, virtue-signalling outrage at the mere mention of 'blackface', an old-fashioned theatrical term that originated in the US (of course) and which was enthusiastically adopted by the poms-- being the main feature of the hugely popular and lucrative 'Black and white minstrel show' which ended in 1978. No one in their right mind would have believed that these were actual black people and no one suggested that they were.
Yet women are expected (forced) to smile sweetly at the huge hairy men (and smaller, not-so-hairy ones too) tottering around in stiletto heels with their huge man-calves and bad wigs (and worse makeup)-- ridiculous caricatures of what they think women are 'supposed' to look like-- and just 'accept' that they are women and welcome them uncomplainingly into changing rooms, toilets, women's refuges, women's prisons and anywhere else that women have a right to feel safe from predatory males.
Interesting that the resident male wokies on here (the ones who would shriek and wail with faux agony at the merest hint of anyone making their skin darker for an acting role), are the most enthusiastic supporters of women being caricatured and ridiculed, not to mention having their privacy and safety compromised.
Apparently there are white people who 'identify' as black people and wear dark makeup in their daily lives. They say that they 'identify' as black, therefore they are black. This is considered 'insensitive' and 'offensive' to black people. People get 'outraged' and 'angered' by it-- the same people who order women to happily accept their 'sisters' and to suck it up or shut the fuck up. It's no coincidence that an underbelly of extreme misogyny has become apparent in the world of 'faux women' and their supporters, just as the origin of 'minstrel blackface' was deeply racist. In mediaeval times actors (naturally enough) thought that when you played a black character (like Othello) then the logical solution to this in the absence of black actors was to make yourself appear black. How astonishing that they would think such a thing

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sun Jan 08, 2023 6:45 pm Is it right or wrong for a person to change the gender they are born with?

It does not seem to me to be a moral issue. A guy pretends, or believes, he's a gal. He expends his resources to give himself the appearance of womanhood, mebbe goin' as far as havin' himself surgically mutillated.

He's nuts, beyond a shadow of doubt.

Where it mebbe becomes a moral issue: when he demands other folks participate in, or validate, his delusion.

Joe has his tallywhacker hacked off; shoves tomato paste up his crude, artificial, vagina (a hole his has to, for the rest of his life, exercise, to keep from healing and closing up) to simulate menstruation; has regular injections of estrogen to diminish his natural masculine features; wears a dress and calls himself Josephine: well, alright...have at it Joe. Ain't none of that any of my business.

However, Joe's demand that I accept his delusion as reality: that there is my business. he's a guy and I won't see or treat him as sumthin' other than a guy (a crazy, horrifically mutilated, guy).

Are you suggesting that only females can have periods? Here's a male having 'period pain' i.e. he needs a good poo

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/arRiFUcXDcw

Ps, what kind of 'exercises' do they do to keep their 'vagina' from closing up?

It is not correct or wrong for a person to change the gender they are born with. Everyone has the right to identify and express their gender in the most comfortable way. For some people, this means transitioning from their assigned gender at birth to another gender and for others, it may mean identifying as non-binary or genderfluid. Ultimately, it is up to the individual to decide which gender identity is most comfortable and appropriate for them.

shelby wrote: ↑Mon Jan 09, 2023 1:18 pm Everyone has the right to identify and express their gender in the most comfortable way.

That surely depends on how they choose to express it, and what impact it has on others.

shelby wrote: ↑Mon Jan 09, 2023 1:18 pm It is not correct or wrong for a person to change the gender they are born with. Everyone has the right to identify and express their gender in the most comfortable way. For some people, this means transitioning from their assigned gender at birth to another gender and for others, it may mean identifying as non-binary or genderfluid. Ultimately, it is up to the individual to decide which gender identity is most comfortable and appropriate for them.

Something can't be right or wrong if it's impossible to do in the first place.

How is gender "assigned"? Like homework is assigned? Aren't you saying that gender exists naturally and is then labeled, kind of like planets are labeled "gas giant" or "dwarf"? The characteristics we are labeling are natural outcomes of natural processes. They are there whether we are here to label them or not and only labeled for the purpose of communication. After all, what use would there be in assigning words to anything if you were the only person to exist?

While we are assigning words to things, what things, or characteristics, do we assign the word, "gender" to? What are you pointing at when you use that word?

The only thing they are changing, or that is fluid, is their mental states.

Hey,
There is nothing wrong in changing the gender one is born with, but it is wrong to make such decisions based on peer pressure, trends and unrealistic expectations. The right thing to do is to know yourself and your priorities, then decide how you want to live your life. If you are happy with your body and how you are, you should live with that confidence. It is also a matter of choice to have breast implants or not. If you think it is essential to look good and feel good about yourself, then go for it. Be confident in your decision because you will feel more confident when you look good. I'm guessing you're referring to gender change here. Gender change surgery for males to females involves the surgical construction of female genitalia. Other procedures include breast augmentation or implant Adam's apple reduction, facial feminization surgery, or further facial plastic surgery.

I personally do not believe that one can change ones' gender. These sex change operations are purely cosmetic or surface changes only.