Reincarnation

[attofishpi]

I think the answer regarding Jesus in any case was because he was human.

It is likely that the PAIN threshold that God allowed to occur had gone too far...that and the factor relating later to others, and their DOUBT of God when running the gauntlet of God's TESTS.

I certainly wasn't being critical of Jesus here. My point was that dontaskme had said

I thought you were talking about Christ's statement re being forsaken by God, and as such I addressed that above. I saw nothing critical in what you wrote relating to Christ.

A fixed belief or set of beliefs that people are expected to accept without any doubts.

about Christianity.

. I think that is false generalization. And as I said, while some Christians may have this attitude, I think many do not. And I used the crucifixion scenario as one reason why I don't believe this is a fair summation.

dontaskme presents her version of spirituality and he model of reality with great certainty here. In her presentations of the way things are she puts forward ideas of various phenomena and of humans, including us. I think this is problematic and this was one point where her models fall short. Perhaps there's an axe to grind distorting the model.

I agree.

Even the most central, spiritual figure of Christianity shows doubt in the most central document of the religion.

Are you referring to Christ and the forsaken thingy?

btw. You stated you are not Christian but a theist. Would you mind giving me some insight as to what you believe?

[Dontaskme]

dontaskme presents her version of spirituality and he model of reality with great certainty here. In her presentations of the way things are she puts forward ideas of various phenomena and of humans, including us. I think this is problematic and this was one point where her models fall short. Perhaps there's an axe to grind distorting the model.

Spirituality denotes there is a sense of something greater than myself. Personally, I do not believe that. I can't even know that even if I'd wanted to. So the idea of spirituality is just another human fantasy as far as I'm concerned.

Personally, I just throw my philosophy out-there to everyone reading, it's never just aimed at one individual as a personal criticism.
What my ideas are made up of is identical to what comes flowing off my lips...and what comes out is mainly my own version of blah blah blah that's unique to my own understanding as to what I think is the nature of being. Anything I say does not mean other peoples philosophy is meaningless or redundant or opposed to my ideas..I'm simply expressing my personal philosophy, the way I am personally imagining it to be.

If readers find it condescending, distorting, problematic, falling short of sense or reason...then I'm perfectly fine with those findings. But that will not change anything as to how or what I view reality to be.


All I asked you was to explain to me.....who was Jesus talking to when he said: 'why hast thou forsaken me?
And you said God.

That's all I'm discussing here with you. Who the heck is God?

And more to the point. Who the heck is supposed to reincarnate and be given rebirth?

[attofishpi]

That's all I'm discussing here with you. Who the heck is God?

Consider it the CPU operating at sub-atomic matter.

And more to the point. Who the heck is supposed to reincarnate and be given rebirth?

U. (your POV)

[Dontaskme]

That's all I'm discussing here with you. Who the heck is God?

Consider it the CPU operating at sub-atomic matter.

So all you are saying now, is that at the sub-atomic level of matter. POV instructions somewhere in time appears to itself in the form of a man called Jesus made of matter flesh and bone which is able to pass on information to other people as and through a process known as conceptual language known as words: ..that are interpreted by matter and understood to mean something along the lines of... ''Jesus told the criminal on the cross, “Today you will be with me in paradise” (Luke 23:43)—not “You will have another chance to live a life on earth.” Matthew 25:46 tells us that, upon death, believers go on to eternal life while unbelievers go on to eternal punishment.''

And more to the point. Who the heck is supposed to reincarnate and be given rebirth?

U. (your POV)

So now you are saying that it is a POV that is reincarnated, and given rebirth, like the one here >

Jesus told the criminal on the cross, “Today you will be with me in paradise” (Luke 23:43)—not “You will have another chance to live a life on earth.” Matthew 25:46 tells us that, upon death, believers go on to eternal life while unbelievers go on to eternal punishment.



And that according to you attofishpi is what God is? ...is that right?

[Dontaskme]

The 'you' is a mystery even to itself because there is no way for 'you' to be present at your own conception or your own death. So that which is a mystery cannot not be a mystery as the concept is known. A 'known'' can never be made unknown, that simply wouldn't make any sense either.

Although 'you' are absolutely FREE to say and do absolutely ANY thing, I suggest 'you' telling "others" what they can or can not know and do is NOT going to help 'you', AT ALL.

Seriously Age, I'm not seeking or in need of any help here as you suggest. Why you even have to drag the idea of 'help' into this discussion is pointless.

I'm only presenting my own unique philosophy as I personally know and see it, I call it my philosophy now, and it can be read on the PN forum by anyone who is interested to read it. Many will, many won't read, but it makes no difference who reads my philosophy, or what they think about it, as it will never change in it's presentation or delivery, it's just the way I personally see the nature of reality, that's all.

I am in no way ''TELLING'' people they must believe what I am saying is irrefutable, or that it is absolutely incapable of being proved wrong. I do not give a shiny shilling whether it's right or wrong for I know nothing. All I know is that I know nothing, except in this conception, what I imagine reality to be. I do not know how many more times I have to remind you about that.

[Dontaskme]

Imagine being rich and thinking all along you were poor.

Imagine all along you thought you were poor, but were in fact rich.

Poor you, ye of little knowledge.

Poor you, constantly talking down to other humans, while pretending you aren't.

The projection of talking down to people, never even crossed my mind to be honest, rather, those words were meant to be very lifting, as far as I was thinking at the time they were being written.

Poor you, saying there is no knowledge but wanting to bestow knowledge all the time.

All I've said, is that knowledge can only point to the illusory nature of reality. Which is fairly accurate to be honest.

Poor you when it is pointed out you are angry - Screw Religion - answer like a lawyer....Screw can mean many things. Avoiding even responding to the point.

It's ok to be angry. I'm sometimes angry, but the emotion, so far has never killed me, so I just allow it to be there if that's what's arising in the moment. Emotions never define me, for example I would never dream of harming or killing another person, because I'm just not inclined or capable of such rage against nature, it would be against my nature.

You can evade and dance like this on the screen. But off there in real life, wherever you are, those things you are hiding and not saying, they come through clearly.

Well you seem to come across as someone who is certain about another persons unique and personal psychology and mental state just by the way they present their philosophy on the internet.

But in reality, in real life, I don't usually hide anything when it comes to my philosophical views, I tend to always say and never not say what I want to say on all things philosophical, and I'm actually quite nice and harmless as well, in real life, but you do not have to believe a single word I say, and I certainly would never dream of telling you to.

Knowledge is a human story, it's something we have invented out of the curiosity to know what we cannot know because without our story, we are nothing, and we do not care to be nothing. That's just my philosophy, there is no obligation on you or anyone to accept it.


''We have, as human beings, a storytelling problem. We're a bit too quick to come up with explanations for things we don't really have an explanation for.''

[attofishpi]

That's all I'm discussing here with you. Who the heck is God?

Consider it the CPU operating at sub-atomic matter.

So all you are saying now, is that at the sub-atomic level of matter. POV instructions somewhere in time appears to itself in the form of a man called Jesus made of matter flesh and bone which is able to pass on information to other people as and through a process known as conceptual language known as words: ..that are interpreted by matter and understood to mean something along the lines of... ''Jesus told the criminal on the cross, “Today you will be with me in paradise” (Luke 23:43)—not “You will have another chance to live a life on earth.” Matthew 25:46 tells us that, upon death, believers go on to eternal life while unbelievers go on to eternal punishment.''

Well, I'm still at Je_sus mode. I_sus God and haven't worket IT out yet. Much of the buy_bull is whipping people of that time into order as far as I can tell.


btw re Matthew 25:46...you are using an EVANGELIST tactic...it is not non-believers but the non-righteous that are being condemned - poor interpretation similar to what preaching fuckwit evandegists do:-

Matthew 25:46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

(and eternal punishment could be anything - reincarnate animal - dead for eternity etc..)

And more to the point. Who the heck is supposed to reincarnate and be given rebirth?

U. (your POV)

So now you are saying that it is a POV that is reincarnated, and given rebirth..

Of course it is. Your 'soul' is you point of view within life. It traverses forward in time throught living flesh, being reborn according to the karma - how you have behaved\conducted yourself\contemplated life etc...

And that according to you attofishpi is what God is? ...is that right?

I have no idea what you are talking about. Are you suggesting I think I am God? - I am a part of IT as U are.

[Dontaskme]

btw re Matthew 25:46...you are using an EVANGELIST tactic...it is not non-believers but the non-righteous that are being condemned - poor interpretation similar to what preaching fuckwit evandegists do:-

It wasn't meant to be a tactic at all. It was simply a quote on quote. To show people what other people are believing.

Matthew 25:46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

(and eternal punishment could be anything - reincarnate animal - dead for eternity etc..)

Aside from the 'dead for eternity' idea goes, I'm all in for that idea, if only that was possible, I'd choose dead for eternity over life anytime.

But the idea of eternal punishment sounds more like what reincarnation would actually signify, because to be born is to be subject to suffering as an unavoidable part of what it means to be a sentient living life form with a nervous system, and so as long as there is sentience there will be the rebirth of pain and suffering reincarnating over and over again. That to me, seems like the only valid and logical meaning we could apply to the word ''reincarnation'' as far as I can understand.

But then in the 'dead for eternity' idea, that sounds more like what heaven would be like, well for me personally anyway, where there will be a permanent cessation of suffering and pain that seems intent to rebirth itself on earth over and over again. And so that 'dead for eternity' idea might even be what paradise is, well for me personally it would. I mean what else could paradise be exactly? but the absence of all pain and suffering on earth forever.

I'm such a deep thinker on these matters.

Of course it is. Your 'soul' is you point of view within life. It traverses forward in time throught living flesh, being reborn according to the karma - how you have behaved\conducted yourself\contemplated life etc...

But this is all simply human story telling, made up of pure conjecture and speculation, there is no actual proof of these ideas as being an actual literal reality experienced by a human being. This idea, that we are reborn according to our karma only popped up recently in comparison to the idea that the universe is 13.8 billion years old, and we humans have only just arrived on the scene, and suddenly it's as if we've got everything figured out as to what we are doing here and why we are here and for what purpose and meaning. Hmm, wishful thinking really, I hardly doubt we have any idea about anything really as to what is reality, especially when it comes to our own place in this life. Did a curiousity lead us into some kind of temptation to make-up, or imagine just about any old cock and bull story we can muster just to make some kind of sense of a world we found ourselves in, through no choice of our own. I mean any story would have been better than no story at all I suppose.


Then what about the time dinosaurs roamed the earth for millions of years. Heck, where was our soul then....where did it reside, where did it exist, did it ever exist? or did it just pop-up one day when the opportunity, conditions and timing arose for it to do so. Or was it just down to the pure luck and chance thanks to that huge big rock that smashed into the planet wiping out a species that roamed the planet for eons. It's all very random isn't it, one minute there's these huge monster looking creatures, then along comes cute little bunny rabbits and lambs and kittens, and then humans. All of which might never have happened if not for that rock smashing into the earth, we might never have existed ever, ever ever, at all, imagine that.

And that according to you attofishpi is what God is? ...is that right?

I have no idea what you are talking about. Are you suggesting I think I am God? - I am a part of IT as U are.

You said earlier that you thought God as being this...... Consider it the CPU operating at sub-atomic matter.

And then there is this >

Then God said, “Let us make human beings in our image, to be like us. They will reign over the fish in the sea, the birds in the sky, the livestock, all the wild animals on the earth, and the small animals that scurry along the ground.” So God created human beings in his own image.


Why does God not make any sense atto?

[Iwannaplato]

I thought you were talking about Christ's statement re being forsaken by God, and as such I addressed that above. I saw nothing critical in what you wrote relating to Christ.

Good.

[Iwannaplato]

Spirituality denotes there is a sense of something greater than myself.

I don't think it has to. I think most people would consider your philosophy as a spiritual one. I can understand that if you take that to mean what you say above, you think it does not apply.

Personally, I just throw my philosophy out-there to everyone reading, it's never just aimed at one individual as a personal criticism.
What my ideas are made up of is identical to what comes flowing off my lips...and what comes out is mainly my own version of blah blah blah that's unique to my own understanding as to what I think is the nature of being. Anything I say does not mean other peoples philosophy is meaningless or redundant or opposed to my ideas..I'm simply expressing my personal philosophy, the way I am personally imagining it to be.

If readers find it condescending, distorting, problematic, falling short of sense or reason...then I'm perfectly fine with those findings. But that will not change anything as to how or what I view reality to be.

I'll see if I can take your posts in the way you describe above. As far as those last two sentences, it seems like you are announcing that nothing anyone says here will change your mind about anything. And yet you want to share your ideas with us. That fits with the kind of guru vibe that I find offputting about your posts, which do have implicit and sometimes explicit judgments of what people are doing, at the very least. It might help not to respond to my posts at least by telling me what my favorite X is. Apart from the fact that you were not correct, it's also got that renegade psychologist/psychic vibe. Up to you, obviously if anyone's response will make any difference to how you think, feel or post.

All I asked you was to explain to me.....who was Jesus talking to when he said: 'why hast thou forsaken me?
And you said God.

And the only reason I brought up the crucifixion and what he said or was purported to have said was it was an expression of doubt by the central figure of Christianity, as part of my response to your generalization about Christianity that one should not or cannot doubt in it. Perhaps pointing such things out could lead to you having a more nuanced view and way of talking about that. A more accurate view. But if nothing can change in your philosophy, if it is that kind of thing you meant above. Well, I have now been clearly warned that you are impervious.

[Walker]

But if nothing can change in your philosophy, if it is that kind of thing you meant above. Well, I have now been clearly warned that you are impervious.

Gooroo talk:

If you chain an elephant it will fight the constraint. The elephant is strong enough to pull up your puny stakes. If you fight a thought it will fight the constraint while you’re watching it, and it’s strong enough to stay. You can’t fence them in, but once you can guide elephants and thoughts you can guide them to stillness and they won't go on a rampage. But guiding women? Good luck, Buck.

[Dontaskme]

But if nothing can change in your philosophy, if it is that kind of thing you meant above. Well, I have now been clearly warned that you are impervious.

Gooroo talk:

If you chain an elephant it will fight the constraint. The elephant is strong enough to pull up your puny stakes. If you fight a thought it will fight the constraint while you’re watching it, and it’s strong enough to stay. You can’t fence them in, but once you can guide elephants and thoughts you can guide them to stillness and they won't go on a rampage. But guiding women? Good luck, Buck.

Oh no, what a surprise, if it isn’t the woman hater showing up again to get his daily fix of hating on women

Please go educate yourself kunt ..and know that the happiest people alive in this world today are single women

No one guides a woman but herself

So fuck off Walker you absolutely vile piece of useless shit

[Dontaskme]

Iwannaplato

There is no such thing as a Christian or Christianity.

If my guru vibe is not to your taste then stop fucking reading my posts you dumb moron.

No one is forcing you to read my blah blah blah….you are only torturing yourself by getting involved with a guru vibe that doesn’t fit well with you, so why get involved then? … that’s not my problem dude, it’s yours, so fuck you.

Just listen to the way you talk to me, and you have the audacity to say I talk down to people…what a joke.

[Iwannaplato]

But if nothing can change in your philosophy, if it is that kind of thing you meant above. Well, I have now been clearly warned that you are impervious.

Gooroo talk:

If you chain an elephant it will fight the constraint. The elephant is strong enough to pull up your puny stakes. If you fight a thought it will fight the constraint while you’re watching it, and it’s strong enough to stay. You can’t fence them in, but once you can guide elephants and thoughts you can guide them to stillness and they won't go on a rampage. But guiding women? Good luck, Buck.

I don't want the role of guiding DAM. Just noting what seemed like a claim she would never change her mind about philosophy in a philosophy discussion forum while she is pontificating to others.

There's a not too pleasant dominance message in that combination.

[Dontaskme]

The truth is not too pleasant
Iwannaplato

If you don’t like it then move out of its way…perhaps you’ll fair better in the land of make belief where you can lay your head so far up a unicorns arse it’ll be difficult for you to change your philosophy too.
You men should stop being so dominant as to want to change the inconvenience of truth.

Get a life. And stop harassing women.