Philosophy Now Forum

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 9:02 pm

commonsense wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 8:39 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 3:07 pm
Does anybody have a theory?

Yes. He was/is dirty. There is no reason to compare him to anyone else.

Dirty? Please be specific: in what way(s)?

But yes, there is very much a reason to compare him to Biden: he’s the alternative, even now. So it’s exactly what voters are supposed to do, even if I’m not.

But there’s an additional reason: that is, that anybody who is genuinely concerned about American politics has to be at least AS concerned about the current situation of them as of anything in the bygone administration. And if they’re not, that tells you everything you need to know about their real motives — they don’t actually care what happens to the U.S. or its allies, no matter how bad it gets…they just hate Trump.

And I want to know why.

He was/is dirty on an absolute basis. On the basis of true facts that you’ve missed. I’ll take one objective fact that you didn’t see, one that wasn’t reported by your news source(s), and one that you mused might be true although it certainly is true.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 3:07 pm
When I ask, people always refer to a comment he is said to have made about groping women, some years ago. And by all accounts, it was a disgusting comment, unworthy of anybody. Fair enough: if it's true, he's a 'potty mouth,' and maybe an exploiter of women by leveraging wealth.

If only you had received a complete coverage of the news, you could have heard ex-President Trump,

Your objection is pointless.

I’m prepared to believe that Trump said it, and I’ve already condemned it as vile and unworthy…though his callous dismissal of willing gold diggers is not more vile than the actual conduct of Bill Clinton with unwilling women, to which no comparable acrimony has ever been directed, one might note. However, let’s take it totally as given that Trump said it, and it was a base and vile thing to say. Furthermore, let’s stipulate that the similar attitude of Kennedy, or the actual sexual predations by Clinton, or the accuser of Biden, do not in the least excuse such an utterance in any way. In fact, let’s concede it 100%.

The same American public that claims to be so righteously enraged by that utterance remained completely unconcerned about Clinton or Biden. How can that be anything but hypocrisy? And if they want to hang Trump for the offence, how do we explain that they have no interest at all in doing it for the other two? That doesn’t make sense.

So why hate Trump with a burning hatred for speaking like an idiot frat boy, but be fine with Clinton actually defiling the Oval Office, or serially abusing, and Hillary silencing and intimidating all his accusers, or Biden allegedly digitally raping a totally unwilling victim — if his vileness to women is the real cause of the alleged rage?

It’s not believable that people who can let the latter slide are actually outraged about Trump’s mere words. There must be more, so let’s have it.

commonsense wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 9:59 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 9:02 pm

commonsense wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 8:39 pm

Yes. He was/is dirty. There is no reason to compare him to anyone else.

Dirty? Please be specific: in what way(s)?

But yes, there is very much a reason to compare him to Biden: he’s the alternative, even now. So it’s exactly what voters are supposed to do, even if I’m not.

But there’s an additional reason: that is, that anybody who is genuinely concerned about American politics has to be at least AS concerned about the current situation of them as of anything in the bygone administration. And if they’re not, that tells you everything you need to know about their real motives — they don’t actually care what happens to the U.S. or its allies, no matter how bad it gets…they just hate Trump.

And I want to know why.

He was/is dirty on an absolute basis. On the basis of true facts that you’ve missed. I’ll take one objective fact that you didn’t see, one that wasn’t reported by your news source(s), and one that you mused might be true although it certainly is true.



If only you had received a complete coverage of the news, you could have heard ex-President Trump,

Your objection is pointless.

I’m prepared to believe that Trump said it, and I’ve already condemned it as vile and unworthy…though his callous dismissal of willing gold diggers is not more vile than the actual conduct of Bill Clinton with unwilling women, to which no comparable acrimony has ever been directed, one might note. However, let’s take it totally as given that Trump said it, and it was a base and vile thing to say. Furthermore, let’s stipulate that the similar attitude of Kennedy, or the actual sexual predations by Clinton, or the accuser of Biden, do not in the least excuse such an utterance in any way. In fact, let’s concede it 100%.

The same American public that claims to be so righteously enraged by that utterance remained completely unconcerned about Clinton or Biden. How can that be anything but hypocrisy? And if they want to hang Trump for the offence, how do we explain that they have no interest at all in doing it for the other two? That doesn’t make sense.

So why hate Trump with a burning hatred for speaking like an idiot frat boy, but be fine with Clinton actually defiling the Oval Office, or serially abusing, and Hillary silencing and intimidating all his accusers, or Biden allegedly digitally raping a totally unwilling victim — if his vileness to women is the real cause of the alleged rage?

It’s not believable that people who can let the latter slide are actually outraged about Trump’s mere words. There must be more, so let’s have it.

But his comment should never have been deemed a hypothetical. Only being ill-informed could lead an intelligent person to think that.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 9:02 pm I’m prepared to believe that Trump said it, and I’ve already condemned it as vile and unworthy…though his callous dismissal of willing gold diggers is not more vile than the actual conduct of Bill Clinton with unwilling women, to which no comparable acrimony has ever been directed, one might note. However, let’s take it totally as given that Trump said it, and it was a base and vile thing to say. Furthermore, let’s stipulate that the similar attitude of Kennedy, or the actual sexual predations by Clinton, or the accuser of Biden, do not in the least excuse such an utterance in any way. In fact, let’s concede it 100%.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 9:02 pm The same American public that claims to be so righteously enraged by that utterance remained completely unconcerned about Clinton or Biden. How can that be anything but hypocrisy? And if they want to hang Trump for the offence, how do we explain that they have no interest at all in doing it for the other two? That doesn’t make sense.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 9:02 pm So why hate Trump with a burning hatred for speaking like an idiot frat boy, but be fine with Clinton actually defiling the Oval Office, or serially abusing, and Hillary silencing and intimidating all his accusers, or Biden allegedly digitally raping a totally unwilling victim — if his vileness to women is the real cause of the alleged rage?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 9:02 pm It’s not believable that people who can let the latter slide are actually outraged about Trump’s mere words. There must be more, so let’s have it.

commonsense wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 10:14 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 9:02 pm It’s not believable that people who can let the latter slide are actually outraged about Trump’s mere words. There must be more, so let’s have it.

I agree. I still say you should never relied solely on your current news sources. This was not ever fake news.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 10:04 pm

commonsense wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 9:59 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 9:02 pm
Dirty? Please be specific: in what way(s)?

But yes, there is very much a reason to compare him to Biden: he’s the alternative, even now. So it’s exactly what voters are supposed to do, even if I’m not.

But there’s an additional reason: that is, that anybody who is genuinely concerned about American politics has to be at least AS concerned about the current situation of them as of anything in the bygone administration. And if they’re not, that tells you everything you need to know about their real motives — they don’t actually care what happens to the U.S. or its allies, no matter how bad it gets…they just hate Trump.

And I want to know why.


Your objection is pointless.

I’m prepared to believe that Trump said it, and I’ve already condemned it as vile and unworthy…though his callous dismissal of willing gold diggers is not more vile than the actual conduct of Bill Clinton with unwilling women, to which no comparable acrimony has ever been directed, one might note. However, let’s take it totally as given that Trump said it, and it was a base and vile thing to say. Furthermore, let’s stipulate that the similar attitude of Kennedy, or the actual sexual predations by Clinton, or the accuser of Biden, do not in the least excuse such an utterance in any way. In fact, let’s concede it 100%.

The same American public that claims to be so righteously enraged by that utterance remained completely unconcerned about Clinton or Biden. How can that be anything but hypocrisy? And if they want to hang Trump for the offence, how do we explain that they have no interest at all in doing it for the other two? That doesn’t make sense.

So why hate Trump with a burning hatred for speaking like an idiot frat boy, but be fine with Clinton actually defiling the Oval Office, or serially abusing, and Hillary silencing and intimidating all his accusers, or Biden allegedly digitally raping a totally unwilling victim — if his vileness to women is the real cause of the alleged rage?

It’s not believable that people who can let the latter slide are actually outraged about Trump’s mere words. There must be more, so let’s have it.

But his comment should never have been deemed a hypothetical. Only being ill-informed could lead an intelligent person to think that.

Not important. I confess I have never heard the remark directly; I've only heard it repeated indirectly, so I'm in no position to say anything more than "allegedly". But if you say you've heard it, I'm not doubting you.

Why do you hate Trump? You can't possibly say, "It's because he talked dirty," can you?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 10:18 pm

commonsense wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 10:14 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 9:02 pm It’s not believable that people who can let the latter slide are actually outraged about Trump’s mere words. There must be more, so let’s have it.

I agree. I still say you should never relied solely on your current news sources. This was not ever fake news.

Utterly irrelevant.

My "crime," in your eyes, is calling "alleged" that which was alleged to me, rather than jumping to a guilty verdict without any evidence. I'm guilty of nothing. Get over it.

Now: why do you hate Trump?

attofishpi wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 3:32 pm

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 3:13 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 3:07 pm But it's an honest question, and I'l actually like to know the answer, if anybody has control of their emotions sufficiently to provide one.)

Me too!

Me too?

commonsense wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 10:43 pm

Why do you hate Trump? You can't possibly say, "It's because he talked dirty," can you?

I don’t hate Trump.

commonsense wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 10:49 pm You missed the point about your claim that the comment was alleged when you could have found credible evidence had you looked for it.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 2:10 am

commonsense wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 10:43 pm

Why do you hate Trump? You can't possibly say, "It's because he talked dirty," can you?

I don’t hate Trump.

Well, let's put it this way: why is he, to you, a worse prospect than Joe Biden actually is right now? Give me something I can believe is a reason to think that.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 2:39 am

commonsense wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 10:49 pm You missed the point about your claim that the comment was alleged when you could have found credible evidence had you looked for it.

No, I got it...you want me to think I had some duty to go and find your recording. Or at least, you want me to think I do. And you want me to think I should feel bad about it.

Except that's really crazy. I can barely believe you even tried a ruse so thin.

In the first place, since he is no candidate of mine, it was really no obligation to me at all. I'm not even sure it would be the duty of Americans to look up the actual speech, either. Maybe it would be, but you'd have to make that case to me. In any case, it's absolutely no duty of mine.

Secondly, aren't you embarassed to offers such a flmsy reason as, "well, he talked dirty"? I mean, it's not the kind of thing I would want a candidate to say, but if you're thinking sanely, so what if one man, at one moment, said something incredibly stupid and rude? Have you been living under a rock, that you've never heard a comedian or entertainer say that sort of thing -- and worse? I don't believe it.

But additionally, I can't help but note that you had no problem with the senile incumbent being actually credibly charged with digital rape, or his earlier partymate being a serial rapist. You never said a thing about either. So if you want to talk about anybody not doing their due dilligence, or failing to react with sufficient shock and horror to the evils done by a candidate, what high ground can you claim for yourself? If seeking out the original evidence is some kind of duty, and if that duty falls on all citizens of every state in the world, then what's your excuse for failing to do so with regard to Clinton and Biden?

But in point of fact, I think it's not your duty or mine, since neither of us are American voters. But that means there is no sufficient warrant for you to be as hostile about Trump as you are. There's something really lunatic about ignoring two rapists' predations, because you're so desperate to excoriate a guy for talking coarsely.

So I'm sorry...I don't believe the reason you don't like Trump is because he said one crude and stupid thing. I honestly don't imagine you're that Victorian in your delicate tastes. Moreover, I can't believe you have any great concern for women, since you didn't expresss any concern at all about Clinton's predations on people like Gennifer Flowers or Biden's attack on Tara Reid, before launching into a tirade against Trump.

You're not telling me the truth. For some reason, your dislike of Trump's comment exceeds your dislike for his peers, who are actual predators. And your hatred of a past president eclipses your much more warranted concern about the present one. None of that makes sense.

So again, the allegation of TDS is all we have...unless you can give me a much more substantial reason why Trump is so much worse than the others.

commonsense wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 12:52 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 2:10 am

commonsense wrote: ↑Wed Sep 07, 2022 10:43 pm I don’t hate Trump.

Well, let's put it this way: why is he, to you, a worse prospect than Joe Biden actually is right now? Give me something I can believe is a reason to think that.

I wouldn’t even say he’s worse as a president. What I’ve said about Trump notwithstanding, Biden is old beyond his years (Trump is actually youthful for his), corny, chauvinistic and just boring. As a man, neither inspires me, to say the least.

As a president, Trump does Republican sorts of things. For Biden, it’s Democrat sorts. That’s really all there is to them as heads of state.