Trump Derangement Syndrome

[commonsense]

Does anybody have a theory?

Yes. He was/is dirty. There is no reason to compare him to anyone else.

Dirty? Please be specific: in what way(s)?

But yes, there is very much a reason to compare him to Biden: he’s the alternative, even now. So it’s exactly what voters are supposed to do, even if I’m not.

But there’s an additional reason: that is, that anybody who is genuinely concerned about American politics has to be at least AS concerned about the current situation of them as of anything in the bygone administration. And if they’re not, that tells you everything you need to know about their real motives — they don’t actually care what happens to the U.S. or its allies, no matter how bad it gets…they just hate Trump.

And I want to know why.

He was/is dirty on an absolute basis. On the basis of true facts that you’ve missed. I’ll take one objective fact that you didn’t see, one that wasn’t reported by your news source(s), and one that you mused might be true although it certainly is true.

When I ask, people always refer to a comment he is said to have made about groping women, some years ago. And by all accounts, it was a disgusting comment, unworthy of anybody. Fair enough: if it's true, he's a 'potty mouth,' and maybe an exploiter of women by leveraging wealth.

If only you had received a complete coverage of the news, you could have heard ex-President Trump,

Your objection is pointless.

I’m prepared to believe that Trump said it, and I’ve already condemned it as vile and unworthy…though his callous dismissal of willing gold diggers is not more vile than the actual conduct of Bill Clinton with unwilling women, to which no comparable acrimony has ever been directed, one might note. However, let’s take it totally as given that Trump said it, and it was a base and vile thing to say. Furthermore, let’s stipulate that the similar attitude of Kennedy, or the actual sexual predations by Clinton, or the accuser of Biden, do not in the least excuse such an utterance in any way. In fact, let’s concede it 100%.

The same American public that claims to be so righteously enraged by that utterance remained completely unconcerned about Clinton or Biden. How can that be anything but hypocrisy? And if they want to hang Trump for the offence, how do we explain that they have no interest at all in doing it for the other two? That doesn’t make sense.

So why hate Trump with a burning hatred for speaking like an idiot frat boy, but be fine with Clinton actually defiling the Oval Office, or serially abusing, and Hillary silencing and intimidating all his accusers, or Biden allegedly digitally raping a totally unwilling victim — if his vileness to women is the real cause of the alleged rage?

It’s not believable that people who can let the latter slide are actually outraged about Trump’s mere words. There must be more, so let’s have it.

But his comment should never have been deemed a hypothetical. Only being ill-informed could lead an intelligent person to think that.

[Immanuel Can]

Yes. He was/is dirty. There is no reason to compare him to anyone else.

Dirty? Please be specific: in what way(s)?

But yes, there is very much a reason to compare him to Biden: he’s the alternative, even now. So it’s exactly what voters are supposed to do, even if I’m not.

But there’s an additional reason: that is, that anybody who is genuinely concerned about American politics has to be at least AS concerned about the current situation of them as of anything in the bygone administration. And if they’re not, that tells you everything you need to know about their real motives — they don’t actually care what happens to the U.S. or its allies, no matter how bad it gets…they just hate Trump.

And I want to know why.

He was/is dirty on an absolute basis. On the basis of true facts that you’ve missed. I’ll take one objective fact that you didn’t see, one that wasn’t reported by your news source(s), and one that you mused might be true although it certainly is true.



If only you had received a complete coverage of the news, you could have heard ex-President Trump,

Your objection is pointless.

I’m prepared to believe that Trump said it, and I’ve already condemned it as vile and unworthy…though his callous dismissal of willing gold diggers is not more vile than the actual conduct of Bill Clinton with unwilling women, to which no comparable acrimony has ever been directed, one might note. However, let’s take it totally as given that Trump said it, and it was a base and vile thing to say. Furthermore, let’s stipulate that the similar attitude of Kennedy, or the actual sexual predations by Clinton, or the accuser of Biden, do not in the least excuse such an utterance in any way. In fact, let’s concede it 100%.

The same American public that claims to be so righteously enraged by that utterance remained completely unconcerned about Clinton or Biden. How can that be anything but hypocrisy? And if they want to hang Trump for the offence, how do we explain that they have no interest at all in doing it for the other two? That doesn’t make sense.

So why hate Trump with a burning hatred for speaking like an idiot frat boy, but be fine with Clinton actually defiling the Oval Office, or serially abusing, and Hillary silencing and intimidating all his accusers, or Biden allegedly digitally raping a totally unwilling victim — if his vileness to women is the real cause of the alleged rage?

It’s not believable that people who can let the latter slide are actually outraged about Trump’s mere words. There must be more, so let’s have it.

But his comment should never have been deemed a hypothetical. Only being ill-informed could lead an intelligent person to think that.

Not important. I confess I have never heard the remark directly; I've only heard it repeated indirectly, so I'm in no position to say anything more than "allegedly". But if you say you've heard it, I'm not doubting you.

Why do you hate Trump? You can't possibly say, "It's because he talked dirty," can you?

[commonsense]

I’m prepared to believe that Trump said it, and I’ve already condemned it as vile and unworthy…though his callous dismissal of willing gold diggers is not more vile than the actual conduct of Bill Clinton with unwilling women, to which no comparable acrimony has ever been directed, one might note. However, let’s take it totally as given that Trump said it, and it was a base and vile thing to say. Furthermore, let’s stipulate that the similar attitude of Kennedy, or the actual sexual predations by Clinton, or the accuser of Biden, do not in the least excuse such an utterance in any way. In fact, let’s concede it 100%.

YES.

The same American public that claims to be so righteously enraged by that utterance remained completely unconcerned about Clinton or Biden. How can that be anything but hypocrisy? And if they want to hang Trump for the offence, how do we explain that they have no interest at all in doing it for the other two? That doesn’t make sense.

I for one would like to see all 3 of them suffer a punishment.

So why hate Trump with a burning hatred for speaking like an idiot frat boy, but be fine with Clinton actually defiling the Oval Office, or serially abusing, and Hillary silencing and intimidating all his accusers, or Biden allegedly digitally raping a totally unwilling victim — if his vileness to women is the real cause of the alleged rage?

Wrong is wrong from either party. That’s one reason why I am an Independent.

It’s not believable that people who can let the latter slide are actually outraged about Trump’s mere words. There must be more, so let’s have it.

I agree. I still say you should never relied solely on your current news sources. This was not ever fake news.

Your blindness to one real fact undermines your acumen.

[Immanuel Can]

It’s not believable that people who can let the latter slide are actually outraged about Trump’s mere words. There must be more, so let’s have it.

I agree. I still say you should never relied solely on your current news sources. This was not ever fake news.

Utterly irrelevant.

My "crime," in your eyes, is calling "alleged" that which was alleged to me, rather than jumping to a guilty verdict without any evidence. I'm guilty of nothing. Get over it.

Now: why do you hate Trump?

[commonsense]

Dirty? Please be specific: in what way(s)?

But yes, there is very much a reason to compare him to Biden: he’s the alternative, even now. So it’s exactly what voters are supposed to do, even if I’m not.

But there’s an additional reason: that is, that anybody who is genuinely concerned about American politics has to be at least AS concerned about the current situation of them as of anything in the bygone administration. And if they’re not, that tells you everything you need to know about their real motives — they don’t actually care what happens to the U.S. or its allies, no matter how bad it gets…they just hate Trump.

And I want to know why.


Your objection is pointless.

I’m prepared to believe that Trump said it, and I’ve already condemned it as vile and unworthy…though his callous dismissal of willing gold diggers is not more vile than the actual conduct of Bill Clinton with unwilling women, to which no comparable acrimony has ever been directed, one might note. However, let’s take it totally as given that Trump said it, and it was a base and vile thing to say. Furthermore, let’s stipulate that the similar attitude of Kennedy, or the actual sexual predations by Clinton, or the accuser of Biden, do not in the least excuse such an utterance in any way. In fact, let’s concede it 100%.

The same American public that claims to be so righteously enraged by that utterance remained completely unconcerned about Clinton or Biden. How can that be anything but hypocrisy? And if they want to hang Trump for the offence, how do we explain that they have no interest at all in doing it for the other two? That doesn’t make sense.

So why hate Trump with a burning hatred for speaking like an idiot frat boy, but be fine with Clinton actually defiling the Oval Office, or serially abusing, and Hillary silencing and intimidating all his accusers, or Biden allegedly digitally raping a totally unwilling victim — if his vileness to women is the real cause of the alleged rage?

It’s not believable that people who can let the latter slide are actually outraged about Trump’s mere words. There must be more, so let’s have it.

But his comment should never have been deemed a hypothetical. Only being ill-informed could lead an intelligent person to think that.

Not important. I confess I have never heard the remark directly; I've only heard it repeated indirectly, so I'm in no position to say anything more than "allegedly". But if you say you've heard it, I'm not doubting you.

Why do you hate Trump? You can't possibly say, "It's because he talked dirty," can you?

I don’t hate Trump. I recognize that he is hated by many. My theory is that his categorization of facts as lies is what makes him hated, not his crude language per se.

I am disappointed by some of the things he’s done, e.g., derailment of the EPA by placing an avid anti-environmentalist in charge, deterioration of the Dept of Education by placing someone in charge of public education who has never taught in a public school, disparagement of the State Department, the CIA, the NSA, the FBI, the electoral process…

I pity him for some of the things that have happened to him, like staring at the sun without protection, being rejected by his wife when trying to hold her hand, being endorsed by the extreme right, endorsing violence at Charlottesville, inciting insurrection at the Capitol…

[commonsense]

It’s not believable that people who can let the latter slide are actually outraged about Trump’s mere words. There must be more, so let’s have it.

I agree. I still say you should never relied solely on your current news sources. This was not ever fake news.

Utterly irrelevant.

My "crime," in your eyes, is calling "alleged" that which was alleged to me, rather than jumping to a guilty verdict without any evidence. I'm guilty of nothing. Get over it.

Now: why do you hate Trump?

Once again, I dislike some of the things he’s done.

You missed the point about your claim that the comment was alleged when you could have found credible evidence had you looked for it. I suspect your bias prevented you from doing so.

[Walker]

But it's an honest question, and I'l actually like to know the answer, if anybody has control of their emotions sufficiently to provide one.)

Me too!

Me too?

IC said he would like to know the answer to his honest question.

Me too means that me too would like to know the answer to his honest question.

That's all. Doesn't mean he has to answer his honest question.

[Immanuel Can]

Why do you hate Trump? You can't possibly say, "It's because he talked dirty," can you?

I don’t hate Trump.

Well, let's put it this way: why is he, to you, a worse prospect than Joe Biden actually is right now? Give me something I can believe is a reason to think that.

[Walker]

Some objective perspective for Situational Puritans.

Trump Administration Accomplishments
https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/tr ... lishments/

[Immanuel Can]

You missed the point about your claim that the comment was alleged when you could have found credible evidence had you looked for it.

No, I got it...you want me to think I had some duty to go and find your recording. Or at least, you want me to think I do. And you want me to think I should feel bad about it.

Except that's really crazy. I can barely believe you even tried a ruse so thin.

In the first place, since he is no candidate of mine, it was really no obligation to me at all. I'm not even sure it would be the duty of Americans to look up the actual speech, either. Maybe it would be, but you'd have to make that case to me. In any case, it's absolutely no duty of mine.

Secondly, aren't you embarassed to offers such a flmsy reason as, "well, he talked dirty"? I mean, it's not the kind of thing I would want a candidate to say, but if you're thinking sanely, so what if one man, at one moment, said something incredibly stupid and rude? Have you been living under a rock, that you've never heard a comedian or entertainer say that sort of thing -- and worse? I don't believe it.

But additionally, I can't help but note that you had no problem with the senile incumbent being actually credibly charged with digital rape, or his earlier partymate being a serial rapist. You never said a thing about either. So if you want to talk about anybody not doing their due dilligence, or failing to react with sufficient shock and horror to the evils done by a candidate, what high ground can you claim for yourself? If seeking out the original evidence is some kind of duty, and if that duty falls on all citizens of every state in the world, then what's your excuse for failing to do so with regard to Clinton and Biden?

But in point of fact, I think it's not your duty or mine, since neither of us are American voters. But that means there is no sufficient warrant for you to be as hostile about Trump as you are. There's something really lunatic about ignoring two rapists' predations, because you're so desperate to excoriate a guy for talking coarsely.

So I'm sorry...I don't believe the reason you don't like Trump is because he said one crude and stupid thing. I honestly don't imagine you're that Victorian in your delicate tastes. Moreover, I can't believe you have any great concern for women, since you didn't expresss any concern at all about Clinton's predations on people like Gennifer Flowers or Biden's attack on Tara Reid, before launching into a tirade against Trump.

You're not telling me the truth. For some reason, your dislike of Trump's comment exceeds your dislike for his peers, who are actual predators. And your hatred of a past president eclipses your much more warranted concern about the present one. None of that makes sense.

So again, the allegation of TDS is all we have...unless you can give me a much more substantial reason why Trump is so much worse than the others.

[commonsense]

Why do you hate Trump? You can't possibly say, "It's because he talked dirty," can you?

I don’t hate Trump.

Well, let's put it this way: why is he, to you, a worse prospect than Joe Biden actually is right now? Give me something I can believe is a reason to think that.

I wouldn’t even say he’s worse as a president. What I’ve said about Trump notwithstanding, Biden is old beyond his years (Trump is actually youthful for his), corny, chauvinistic and just boring. As a man, neither inspires me, to say the least.

As a president, Trump does Republican sorts of things. For Biden, it’s Democrat sorts. That’s really all there is to them as heads of state.

[commonsense]

You missed the point about your claim that the comment was alleged when you could have found credible evidence had you looked for it.

No, I got it...you want me to think I had some duty to go and find your recording. Or at least, you want me to think I do. And you want me to think I should feel bad about it.

Except that's really crazy. I can barely believe you even tried a ruse so thin.

In the first place, since he is no candidate of mine, it was really no obligation to me at all. I'm not even sure it would be the duty of Americans to look up the actual speech, either. Maybe it would be, but you'd have to make that case to me. In any case, it's absolutely no duty of mine.

Secondly, aren't you embarassed to offers such a flmsy reason as, "well, he talked dirty"? I mean, it's not the kind of thing I would want a candidate to say, but if you're thinking sanely, so what if one man, at one moment, said something incredibly stupid and rude? Have you been living under a rock, that you've never heard a comedian or entertainer say that sort of thing -- and worse? I don't believe it.

But additionally, I can't help but note that you had no problem with the senile incumbent being actually credibly charged with digital rape, or his earlier partymate being a serial rapist. You never said a thing about either. So if you want to talk about anybody not doing their due dilligence, or failing to react with sufficient shock and horror to the evils done by a candidate, what high ground can you claim for yourself? If seeking out the original evidence is some kind of duty, and if that duty falls on all citizens of every state in the world, then what's your excuse for failing to do so with regard to Clinton and Biden?

But in point of fact, I think it's not your duty or mine, since neither of us are American voters. But that means there is no sufficient warrant for you to be as hostile about Trump as you are. There's something really lunatic about ignoring two rapists' predations, because you're so desperate to excoriate a guy for talking coarsely.

So I'm sorry...I don't believe the reason you don't like Trump is because he said one crude and stupid thing. I honestly don't imagine you're that Victorian in your delicate tastes. Moreover, I can't believe you have any great concern for women, since you didn't expresss any concern at all about Clinton's predations on people like Gennifer Flowers or Biden's attack on Tara Reid, before launching into a tirade against Trump.

You're not telling me the truth. For some reason, your dislike of Trump's comment exceeds your dislike for his peers, who are actual predators. And your hatred of a past president eclipses your much more warranted concern about the present one. None of that makes sense.

So again, the allegation of TDS is all we have...unless you can give me a much more substantial reason why Trump is so much worse than the others.

Me thinks Walker doth protest too much.

With apologies to Walker, I meant to say IC.

[commonsense]

BTW, what is digital rape?

And FYI, I have always said that Clinton and Biden are scum in regard to their sex harassment and assaults. I just haven’t said so in this thread because, as you know my opinion and disagree with it, I consider arguments like, “If you don’t like person A, then what about person B?” to be vapid. If this thread were about a Clinton or Biden syndrome, I would have opined about them.

Also, if you were an informed American voter or an informed world citizen, you would want to pursue a balanced presentation of the news. And I say here that because the comment—and I am not as much concerned with its content as I am that it represents a blind spot in your news sources—was played on tape as direct evidence on many, albeit liberal, news media, it would have been easy to hear this audio tape with your own ears.

Nonetheless it is a pleasure having this conversation with you.

[commonsense]

PS: I didn’t complain that he talks dirty, but rather that he is dirty.

[Immanuel Can]

I don’t hate Trump.

Well, let's put it this way: why is he, to you, a worse prospect than Joe Biden actually is right now? Give me something I can believe is a reason to think that.

I wouldn’t even say he’s worse as a president. What I’ve said about Trump notwithstanding, Biden is old beyond his years (Trump is actually youthful for his), corny, chauvinistic and just boring. As a man, neither inspires me, to say the least.

As a president, Trump does Republican sorts of things. For Biden, it’s Democrat sorts. That’s really all there is to them as heads of state.

But why have any special antipathy to Trump?

Some minor ire, but nothing at all comparable, attended the regimes of either Bush, or of Reagan. The press insulted them, but in tones much more muted than today's. They might have been resented for their conservatism, or (in the case of Bush, particularly) mocked for their limitations; but they were not feared, hated, vilified and reviled as Trump has been. And in any impartial assessment, Biden is surely a much fatter target for criticism than any of the above, both for his person and his constant blunders politically...almost more of a ready target than all of them put together. He almost mocks himself. And yet, he catches very little media flak, by comparison to any of them.

Why are people so crazed? It needs an explanation. And the explanation clearly isn't that Trump is so inherently and manifestly so much more wicked, dirty or salacious than any of his predecessors. It's something else.

But what?