Page 9 of 30
Re: Philosophy
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2022 10:41 am
by Wizard22
How many millenniums do you want to wait for an apple tree to produce grapes, or watermelons, or ham sandwiches?
Re: Philosophy
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2022 10:48 am
by FlashDangerpants
Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 10:29 am
FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 10:00 am
Belinda wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 5:07 pm
My moral principles are true for me and may well not be true for someone else.
Pol Pot's moral principles were true for him, but several observers found them lacking.
The word "true" is being used in a way that does not exclude false here, making the whole sentiment worthless.
Yes but the culture of Pol Pot was wrong.
So says your truth. But his truth says you are wrong.
That's what happens when you are so profligate with the T word.
Re: Philosophy
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2022 10:50 am
by Belinda
Wizard22 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 10:41 am
How many millenniums do you want to wait for an apple tree to produce grapes, or watermelons, or ham sandwiches?
Genetic engineering does quite a lot to change hereditary possibilities. I bet an apple tree can be made to produce grapes!
As for ham sandwiches , vegetable has been genetically engineered to combine with animal to produce a chimera.
Re: Philosophy
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2022 10:51 am
by Harbal
Wizard22 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 10:41 am
How many millenniums do you want to wait for an apple tree to produce grapes, or watermelons, or ham sandwiches?
I don't want to wait any time at all for those things.
Re: Philosophy
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2022 10:59 am
by Belinda
FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 10:48 am
Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 10:29 am
FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 10:00 am
Pol Pot's moral principles were true for him, but several observers found them lacking.
The word "true" is being used in a way that does not exclude false here, making the whole sentiment worthless.
Yes but the culture of Pol Pot was wrong.
So says your truth. But his truth says you are wrong.
That's what happens when you are so profligate with the T word.
It's deep fact of nature (or God take; your pick) that cultures of belief are often opposed to one another. If there were a God, the only way back to Him would be via conflict and resolution of conflict, as that is the way of the world.
Anthropologists and good diplomats try to get inside cultures that they did not take in with their mother's milk. And there are strategies that can assist. But in the end the subjective stance is the only stance of which we are capable. Sooner or later there must be an ultimatum if we are to act.
Re: Philosophy
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:02 am
by Wizard22
Harbal wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 10:51 am
Wizard22 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 10:41 am
How many millenniums do you want to wait for an apple tree to produce grapes, or watermelons, or ham sandwiches?
I don't want to wait any time at all for those things.
So you basically just contradicted yourself?
You said that you believe that Nature can change, but you're not willing to wait to see this supposed "change".
Re: Philosophy
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:03 am
by Wizard22
Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 10:50 am
Genetic engineering does quite a lot to change hereditary possibilities. I bet an apple tree can be made to produce grapes!
As for ham sandwiches , vegetable has been genetically engineered to combine with animal to produce a chimera.
And that sounds "Unnatural". So it doesn't address the point. Its "Nature" still isn't changing, even if you tried to change its genetics.
Re: Philosophy
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:05 am
by Harbal
Wizard22 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:02 am
So you basically just contradicted yourself?
You said that you believe that Nature can change, but you're not willing to wait to see this supposed "change".
That's not a contradiction.
Re: Philosophy
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:09 am
by Wizard22
It is a contradiction, because your actions do not match your supposed belief.
And I doubt that you actually believe Nature changes. It's such a ludicrous idea, that I don't believe even Belinda believes what she's saying.
Re: Philosophy
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:13 am
by Belinda
Wizard22 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:03 am
Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 10:50 am
Genetic engineering does quite a lot to change hereditary possibilities. I bet an apple tree can be made to produce grapes!
As for ham sandwiches , vegetable has been genetically engineered to combine with animal to produce a chimera.
And that sounds "Unnatural". So it doesn't address the point. Its "Nature" still isn't changing, even if you tried to change its genetics.
But what men do is natural. What is man if he is not natural?
You have to get to grips with the ethical conundrum of genetic engineering as it is upon us. Some chimeras are forbidden, not because they are not "natural" but because they are cruel.
Re: Philosophy
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:16 am
by Wizard22
If Man intercedes, then it still doesn't change the Nature of the thing.
The Apple tree still produces apples, despite the Chimera that was made in its image.
It is a dysfunctional copy, a mimicry, of the original thing. Hence it is unnatural.
Re: Philosophy
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:17 am
by Belinda
Wizard22 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:16 am
If Man intercedes, then it still doesn't change the Nature of the thing.
The Apple tree still produces apples, despite the Chimera that was made in its image.
It is a dysfunctional copy, a mimicry, of the original thing. Hence it is
unnatural.
Please see my post above.
Re: Philosophy
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:32 am
by Wizard22
I already read and understood it the first time.
You implied that intervening upon a 'Natural' thing, would mean that it's still natural, despite merely Mimicking the original thing.
A copy is not an original. I disagree with your premise.
Re: Philosophy
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:35 am
by FlashDangerpants
Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 10:59 am
FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 10:48 am
Belinda wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 10:29 am
Yes but the culture of Pol Pot was wrong.
So says your truth. But his truth says you are wrong.
That's what happens when you are so profligate with the T word.
It's deep fact of nature (or God take; your pick) that cultures of belief are often opposed to one another. If there were a God, the only way back to Him would be via conflict and resolution of conflict, as that is the way of the world.
Anthropologists and good diplomats try to get inside cultures that they did not take in with their mother's milk. And there are strategies that can assist. But in the end the subjective stance is the only stance of which we are capable. Sooner or later there must be an ultimatum if we are to act.
Why do you keep waffling about "truths" when you are clearly a subjectivist?
Is it just for an excuse to sneak God into yet another non-religious conversation?
Re: Philosophy
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:41 am
by Sculptor
Wizard22 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 10:15 am
Sculptor wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 3:16 pm1. Life = not dead.
2. In the minds of scared and deluded people.
3. Nature is as Nature does.
Is there more to life than "merely surviving"?
I did not use the word surviving.
I was asked what was the meaning of life and defined it by it's opposite.
What meaning we may chose to place upon it is up to us and cannot be answered for another.