Philosophy Now Forum

Henry

he's the paradox...as I say, constantly climbin' as is his bent, constantly distracted from the climb

So Man is a partial truth always climbing in the direction of the whole truth or the eternal unchanging but is somehow distracted. This is the spiritual quest. How can a person study what distracts him from his aim?

Belinda wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 11:19 am Nick, the Great Beast according to Simone is constantly in your philosophising . Your vision of this Beast has become too crystallised in your mind. Incidentally your use of the word 'imagination' is ideosyncratic. You use the word 'imagination' as if it were a synonym for 'fantasy'.

Imagination is better regarded as ability to think in new and unusual ways and to be creative.

Two observations on imagination:

“Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we now know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand.” ― Albert Einstein

Imagination is always the fabric of social life and the dynamic of history. The influence of real needs and compulsions, of real interests and materials, is indirect because the crowd is never conscious of it.

Imagination and fiction make up more than three quarters of our real life. Simone Weil

Imagination as an advanced human quality is as Einstein described it and Plato referred to as remembrance.

Simone described imagination as replacing conscious remembrance through conscious contemplation with fantasy.

New Age beliefs are only concerned with how we imagine ourselves calling it creative. Einstein and Simone are concerned with consciously experiencing the already known non illusory truths of the world and Man within it.

Imagination has two different meanings.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:01 pm Henry

he's the paradox...as I say, constantly climbin' as is his bent, constantly distracted from the climb

So Man is a partial truth always climbing in the direction of the whole truth or the eternal unchanging but is somehow distracted. This is the spiritual quest. How can a person study what distracts him from his aim?

I'd say man is the finite in search of the infinite

why study the distractions?

that's just more distraction (meta-distraction)

no, just recognize distractions and dispense with them

henry quirk wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:35 pm

Nick_A wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:01 pm Henry

he's the paradox...as I say, constantly climbin' as is his bent, constantly distracted from the climb

So Man is a partial truth always climbing in the direction of the whole truth or the eternal unchanging but is somehow distracted. This is the spiritual quest. How can a person study what distracts him from his aim?

I'd say man is the finite in search of the infinite

why study the distractions?

that's just more distraction (meta-distraction)

no, just recognize distractions and dispense with them

A person must decide what their aim is. This is a big question. If their desire is to be happy, to be rich, or to be famous for example they must make efforts in these directions and eliminate distractions. If a person is a seeker of truth It would seem necessary to determine what causes distractions in their psych. In other words they must be willing and able to make the efforts to "Know Thyself" rather then imagining oneself.

commonsense wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:43 pm I noticed that the posts on this thread lately are about what man is in general. Does that indicate that all men are created equal?

Yes, being governed by imagination we are all the same.

If a person is a seeker of truth It would seem necessary to determine what causes distractions in their psych.

distractions are obvious things

appetites are obvious things

recognizin' how the two interlock is easy

just do it (stolen from nike without a royalty paid)


In other words they must be willing and able to make the efforts to "Know Thyself" rather then imagining oneself.

way too much is made about know thyself by damaged people and by folks lookin' to make a profit

get yourself an ax and go chop wood

Henry

If a person is a seeker of truth It would seem necessary to determine what causes distractions in their psych.

distractions are obvious things

appetites are obvious things

recognizin' how the two interlock is easy

just do it (stolen from nike without a royalty paid)

We would agree then that a seeker of truth needs to acquire will. We can say “just do it” but what if we can’t? What if we learn that we really are the wretched man with many opposing desires and unable to be master of ourselves?

What of the alcoholic who swears he will not drink today but does so. He can say it but cannot do it. The obvious question is why? That is what it means to learn of distractions. It is the beginning of learning what it means to acquire will

way too much is made about know thyself by damaged people and by folks lookin' to make a profit

get yourself an ax and go chop wood

Very true. Damaged people get hold of an idea and are conned by charlatans, pop psychology, and New Age experts. But we can agree that there are beneficial efforts as well as foolish efforts. There is no sense chopping wood unless we know why we are chopping wood.

The first thing a seeker of truth needs is a goal; to know what their aim is. Do they want to be master of themselves or just go with the flow? To be master of oneself one has to know what the self is: to know thyself. What is a seeker of truth willing to sacrifice in order to experience the truth of the human condition? Then chopping wood may make sense.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sat Aug 15, 2020 5:54 pm Henry

If a person is a seeker of truth It would seem necessary to determine what causes distractions in their psych.

distractions are obvious things

appetites are obvious things

recognizin' how the two interlock is easy

just do it (stolen from nike without a royalty paid)

We would agree then that a seeker of truth needs to acquire will. We can say “just do it” but what if we can’t? What if we learn that we really are the wretched man with many opposing desires and unable to be master of ourselves?

What of the alcoholic who swears he will not drink today but does so. He can say it but cannot do it. The obvious question is why? That is what it means to learn of distractions. It is the beginning of learning what it means to acquire will

way too much is made about know thyself by damaged people and by folks lookin' to make a profit

get yourself an ax and go chop wood

Very true. Damaged people get hold of an idea and are conned by charlatans, pop psychology, and New Age experts. But we can agree that there are beneficial efforts as well as foolish efforts. There is no sense chopping wood unless we know why we are chopping wood.

The first thing a seeker of truth needs is a goal; to know what their aim is. Do they want to be master of themselves or just go with the flow? To be master of oneself one has to know what the self is: to know thyself. What is a seeker of truth willing to sacrifice in order to experience the truth of the human condition? Then chopping wood may make sense.

why chop wood?

to chop wood

it's not a system (distraction) or a process (a distraction) or a philosophy (a distraction)

don't court the millipede's quandary by analyzin' it or codifyin' it or lookin' for the right way to do it

just get an ax (not too heavy or light for you) and go chop wood

no time limit, no set amount of wood

go chop wood

don't read about it or consult the thinkin' of the great wood choppers of history

just go chop wood

and, to be plain about it: I ain't bein' figurative or clever or zen

just go chop wood

Henry

why chop wood?

to chop wood

it's not a system (distraction) or a process (a distraction) or a philosophy (a distraction)

don't court the millipede's quandary by analyzin' it or codifyin' it or lookin' for the right way to do it

just get an ax (not too heavy or light for you) and go chop wood

no time limit, no set amount of wood

go chop wood

don't read about it or consult the thinkin' of the great wood choppers of history

just go chop wood

and, to be plain about it: I ain't bein' figurative or clever or zen

just go chop wood

You seem to be describing going with the flow. If that is a peson's aim it is good advice. But a seeker of truth knows that the future for going with the flow is dust to dust. It is an objective meaningless existence. They make efforts to experience the conscious possibilities for man and experience human rather than social purpose

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:45 pm Henry

why chop wood?

to chop wood

it's not a system (distraction) or a process (a distraction) or a philosophy (a distraction)

don't court the millipede's quandary by analyzin' it or codifyin' it or lookin' for the right way to do it

just get an ax (not too heavy or light for you) and go chop wood

no time limit, no set amount of wood

go chop wood

don't read about it or consult the thinkin' of the great wood choppers of history

just go chop wood

and, to be plain about it: I ain't bein' figurative or clever or zen

just go chop wood

You seem to be describing going with the flow. If that is a peson's aim it is good advice. But a seeker of truth knows that the future for going with the flow is dust to dust. It is an objective meaningless existence. They make efforts to experience the conscious possibilities for man and experience human rather than social purpose

you're analyzin'

I've said what I wanted to here

won't say no more

Or dig a ditch.

Same as chopping wood.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:22 pm

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:45 pm Henry

why chop wood?

to chop wood

it's not a system (distraction) or a process (a distraction) or a philosophy (a distraction)

don't court the millipede's quandary by analyzin' it or codifyin' it or lookin' for the right way to do it

just get an ax (not too heavy or light for you) and go chop wood

no time limit, no set amount of wood

go chop wood

don't read about it or consult the thinkin' of the great wood choppers of history

just go chop wood

and, to be plain about it: I ain't bein' figurative or clever or zen

just go chop wood

You seem to be describing going with the flow. If that is a peson's aim it is good advice. But a seeker of truth knows that the future for going with the flow is dust to dust. It is an objective meaningless existence. They make efforts to experience the conscious possibilities for man and experience human rather than social purpose

you're analyzin'

I've said what I wanted to here

won't say no more

Analyzing is one thing and questioning is another. Take away the human ability to question and you'll end up with a lot of cults and naked emperors since there will be no kid to question the emperors new clothes

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sun Aug 16, 2020 1:51 am

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:22 pm

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:45 pm Henry



You seem to be describing going with the flow. If that is a peson's aim it is good advice. But a seeker of truth knows that the future for going with the flow is dust to dust. It is an objective meaningless existence. They make efforts to experience the conscious possibilities for man and experience human rather than social purpose

you're analyzin'

I've said what I wanted to here

won't say no more

Analyzing is one thing and questioning is another. Take away the human ability to question and you'll end up with a lot of cults and naked emperors since there will be no kid to question the emperors new clothes

Henry, I don’t think Nick gets it.

Nick, clear your mind, focus on the wood and be the air.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sun Aug 16, 2020 1:51 am

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:22 pm

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:45 pm Henry



You seem to be describing going with the flow. If that is a peson's aim it is good advice. But a seeker of truth knows that the future for going with the flow is dust to dust. It is an objective meaningless existence. They make efforts to experience the conscious possibilities for man and experience human rather than social purpose

you're analyzin'

I've said what I wanted to here

won't say no more

Analyzing is one thing and questioning is another. Take away the human ability to question and you'll end up with a lot of cults and naked emperors since there will be no kid to question the emperors new clothes

it ain't possible to turn wood choppin' into a cult (unless you systemize it, write books about it, set yourself up as wood choppin' guru)

that's why I'll say no more on the subject

I won't analyze it and won't read any analysis

commonsense wrote: ↑Sun Aug 16, 2020 2:09 am

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sun Aug 16, 2020 1:51 am

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:22 pm

you're analyzin'

I've said what I wanted to here

won't say no more

Analyzing is one thing and questioning is another. Take away the human ability to question and you'll end up with a lot of cults and naked emperors since there will be no kid to question the emperors new clothes

Henry, I don’t think Nick gets it.

Nick, clear your mind, focus on the wood and be the air.

mebbe you don't get it, either

as I say: you chop wood to chop wood

that's all