Philosophy Now Forum

Dalek Prime wrote:

Kayla wrote:

thedoc wrote: I see burkas all the time in Toronto. Not unusual, and its none of my business what a woman wears. I still say though, that the more clothes you wear swimming, the more likely you will drown. Also not my issue, as I'm not paid to be a lifeguard.

do you have any stats on this?

i was a lifeguard for a while and this does not ring true - if you go swimming in your regular clothes then yes, they can get waterlogged and cause a problem

but a burkini is not like regular clothes at all

have never seen anyone wear a burkini though

It is everybodies' business what others wear because clothing is not only functional it also symbolises who one is. Thus adolescents sometimes wear provocative clothing which is intended to show that they are rebels against the older generation and partisan to their adolescent 'tribes'.

Muslims revere the Koran which instructs them to dress modestly. This innocent and good-mannered instruction has been hi-jacked by male-dominated political interests which use women as clothes horses to demonstrate those poilitical interests.

The problem of burkinis is therefore one of how to defang militaristic political islamism without compromising individuals' human rights to express their affiliations.

Kayla wrote:

Dalek Prime wrote:

Kayla wrote:

do you have any stats on this?

i was a lifeguard for a while and this does not ring true - if you go swimming in your regular clothes then yes, they can get waterlogged and cause a problem

but a burkini is not like regular clothes at all

have never seen anyone wear a burkini though

No stats on this. But I can tell you there is more drag on the burkini than the average Speedo. And a bit of drag can mean life or death. Do you disagree?

Belinda wrote:The problem of burkinis is therefore one of how to defang militaristic political islamism without compromising individuals' human rights to express their affiliations.

I still don't see what burkinis have to do with Islamism. This just seems like a stunt to harass Muslims.

Belinda wrote:The problem of burkinis is therefore one of how to defang militaristic political islamism without compromising individuals' human rights to express their affiliations.

The solution is relatively simple: if someone is being forced to wear something they do not want to wear, the person violating consent in that situation should be held accountable for violating consent.

Of course, that's not quite so simple in that many people will not be comfortable claiming that their consent has been violated, that they're being forced to wear something they do not want to wear.

But the way to tackle that is simply via public education promoting (a) not violating consent in this way, and (b) reporting when one's consent has been violated.

Of course, the consent violation repercussions can not be draconian. They have to be common-sensically to proportionate to just what sort of force occurred.

Terrapin Station wrote:The solution is relatively simple: if someone is being forced to wear something they do not want to wear, the person violating consent in that situation should be held accountable for violating consent..

This is exactly my position. But one I fear France has transgressed, by imposing a ban which restricts those who want to wear the burkha.

Fritz Langwedge wrote:

Belinda wrote:The problem of burkinis is therefore one of how to defang militaristic political islamism without compromising individuals' human rights to express their affiliations.

I still don't see what burkinis have to do with Islamism. This just seems like a stunt to harass Muslims.

Its definitely a knee-jerk racist law.

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

Fritz Langwedge wrote:

Belinda wrote:The problem of burkinis is therefore one of how to defang militaristic political islamism without compromising individuals' human rights to express their affiliations.

I still don't see what burkinis have to do with Islamism. This just seems like a stunt to harass Muslims.

Its definitely a knee-jerk racist law.

Those fucking surrender monkeys. If they aren't bothering you with their stinky cheese they are stealing the clothes off your tits!