Is it moral for God to punish us?

[Jaded Sage]

"The greatest evil is the hatred of reasonable discourse." - Plato

I feel comfortable saying it follows from that that it is the height of immorality to misrepresent honest inquiry.

[Greatest I am]

What caused you to say God tortured the child? Were you already against God the first time you read it? You also say God acted out of anger, but the passage does not.

So intentionally giving a baby a killing sickness is not torture. Ok.

More of your sick morals.

Regards
DL

Torture requires severe suffering but there is nothing in the text to suggest that. How do you explain your false claim that God was angry? Did your bias cause you to misread it? I am detecting a pattern with you. Now your bias against me is causing you to see an amoral statment as an immoral statement. You don't seem qualified to be talking about any of this. Your bias is horrible.

Have it your way then and think that your immoral and vile God was in a good mood when torturing ands killing that baby.

You take your immorality from sick to sicker.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

"The greatest evil is the hatred of reasonable discourse." - Plato

I feel comfortable saying it follows from that that it is the height of immorality to misrepresent honest inquiry.

So stop doing so by saying something is moral when it is not.

Regards
DL

[Jaded Sage]

What caused you to say God tortured the child? Were you already against God the first time you read it? You also say God acted out of anger, but the passage does not.

Torture requires severe suffering but there is nothing in the text to suggest that. How do you explain your false claim that God was angry? Did your bias cause you to misread it? I am detecting a pattern with you. Now your bias against me is causing you to see an amoral statment as an immoral statement. You don't seem qualified to be talking about any of this. Your bias is horrible.

Have it your way then and think that your immoral and vile God was in a good mood when torturing ands killing that baby.

It says David was angry. Are you open to the possibility that you misread it?

[Greatest I am]

What caused you to say God tortured the child? Were you already against God the first time you read it? You also say God acted out of anger, but the passage does not.

Torture requires severe suffering but there is nothing in the text to suggest that. How do you explain your false claim that God was angry? Did your bias cause you to misread it? I am detecting a pattern with you. Now your bias against me is causing you to see an amoral statment as an immoral statement. You don't seem qualified to be talking about any of this. Your bias is horrible.

Have it your way then and think that your immoral and vile God was in a good mood when torturing ands killing that baby.

It says David was angry. Are you open to the possibility that you misread it?

We are talking of God and not David.

If I miss-read, I am sure you would correct me.

Regards
DL

[artisticsolution]

Here’s an interesting trio:

Anyone can harm in the name of goodness...it's called terrorism.

Harming in the name of goodness can also be called self-defense.

There is no such thing as harming in the name of goodness.

You realize that the first two sentences were meant to be sarcastic, right? Sry...I should have put quotation marks around 'goodness' on the first two sentences to make it clear.

The only thing I am getting at is I think we should be diligent in our understanding of the word 'good'. It is lazy / unhealthy thinking to be swayed by this current trend of thinking 'good' means defeating the bad guys. If you think of it, that is what ISIS is doing too. It is misguided. Defeating bad guys is necessary....not 'good'.

If instead , we understood that good can only mean good circumstances all around, then perhaps we could not congratulate ourselves for fighting in the first place. And fighting would become anti social, perhaps lessening in frequency. Yes, Superman was a Hero because he fought crime. But what people fail to understand is that Superman goodness also came from the fact he was good despite fighting crime. Plus, he did not congratulate himself for being forced to save the world. He did it because he had too...not because it was 'good'.

If we can't understand the difference, then how can we discern what is good and what is bad in general?

It's much easier to beat up on an imaginary being, like God, than it is to beat up on ourselves, isn't it?

[artisticsolution]

So intentionally giving a baby a killing sickness is not torture. Ok.

More of your sick morals.

Regards
DL

Greatest, I think you are being a little harsh on sage. He/She doesn't understand what you are getting at, I don't think. Not to mention, you have no idea of this God you speak of....magic beings can perform magic for effect. He could have created a fake baby to kill...you don't know what an omnipotent God knows. Plus...according to the bible, if one is inclined to believe it...Satan was MUCH worse. So bad, in fact, that is mankind punishment...that is...going to hell. God's place is supposed to be much better.

Anyway, as far as the basic message goes, of the rules of how to 'be' good. The bible's 'rules' are pretty good....that is until one starts ignoring them in lieu of the stories.

Read the bible with purity of heart, and I think you'll do okay. If not, it will take you to a dark place. And that is where it's brilliance lies. It is a mirror that way. How you read it says a lot about who you are, i think.

[Walker]

Here’s an interesting trio:

Anyone can harm in the name of goodness...it's called terrorism.

Harming in the name of goodness can also be called self-defense.

There is no such thing as harming in the name of goodness.

You realize that the first two sentences were meant to be sarcastic, right? Sry...I should have put quotation marks around 'goodness' on the first two sentences to make it clear.

The only thing I am getting at is I think we should be diligent in our understanding of the word 'good'. It is lazy / unhealthy thinking to be swayed by this current trend of thinking 'good' means defeating the bad guys. If you think of it, that is what ISIS is doing too. It is misguided. Defeating bad guys is necessary....not 'good'.

If instead , we understood that good can only mean good circumstances all around, then perhaps we could not congratulate ourselves for fighting in the first place. And fighting would become anti social, perhaps lessening in frequency. Yes, Superman was a Hero because he fought crime. But what people fail to understand is that Superman goodness also came from the fact he was good despite fighting crime. Plus, he did not congratulate himself for being forced to save the world. He did it because he had too...not because it was 'good'.

If we can't understand the difference, then how can we discern what is good and what is bad in general?

It's much easier to beat up on an imaginary being, like God, than it is to beat up on ourselves, isn't it?

Hey artistic one.

Moving from empirical to Philosophical Truth, I think this is what you’re beaming.

In the Philosophy of Religion
To perceive reality unclouded by delusion
Ego and its family must surrender to imminent death
To do this and to own it
Requires a fearless ego
Ego thinks it is You
A forgiveable mistake that ego makes
Kali claims Ego
Sooner or later
One way or another

[artisticsolution]

Anyway...I believe killing a child raper is a good thing...in the same way that excising a cancer is a good thing.

Okay Henry, if killing cancer and child rapers are 'good' things to do, then why not manufacture such things in order to bring about goodness?

Give people cancer, so we can be good and cure it. Allow pedo's to be alone with children, so we can come in a few minutes later and save the child.

Do you see how ludicrous that sounds? I am trying to make a point so you can see how far we have separated ourselves from being able to discern good from bad. Literally, we have no idea what good is anymore because we have diluted the word.

We love stories where we have won a fight. We eat them up like candy. But those stories are not 'good' stories. It only because we want to be seen as heroes that we make them 'good'.

Did you ever see the movie 'devils advocate'. At the end, the guy finally does the right thing and decides not to defend the criminal. and then lo and behold he is a hero in the media...and he is proud. Just like that, he makes the switch from goodness to a darker path. Why, you may ask, is it a darker path to be proud of media attention for your acts of goodness. Because it makes us complacent in our understanding of what it means to be good. It makes us 'stage' things in a way where we need to start inventing 'bad guys' to conquer so that we may be 'good'.

There is never going to be an end to bad people until there is no more people, but I think we are to the point of perpetuating/manufacturing evil so we can be heroes.

All I am saying, is perhaps we could think a little deeper when it comes to understanding what it means to 'be' good.

[henry quirk]

Art,

Define 'good'.

I think mebbe we're talkin' past one another, mostly cuz we don't have a common definition.

[Greatest I am]

So intentionally giving a baby a killing sickness is not torture. Ok.

More of your sick morals.

Regards
DL

Greatest, I think you are being a little harsh on sage. He/She doesn't understand what you are getting at, I don't think. Not to mention, you have no idea of this God you speak of....magic beings can perform magic for effect. He could have created a fake baby to kill...you don't know what an omnipotent God knows. Plus...according to the bible, if one is inclined to believe it...Satan was MUCH worse. So bad, in fact, that is mankind punishment...that is...going to hell. God's place is supposed to be much better.

Anyway, as far as the basic message goes, of the rules of how to 'be' good. The bible's 'rules' are pretty good....that is until one starts ignoring them in lieu of the stories.

Read the bible with purity of heart, and I think you'll do okay. If not, it will take you to a dark place. And that is where it's brilliance lies. It is a mirror that way. How you read it says a lot about who you are, i think.

I agree with your last and that tells me that our friend has no morals as the torture and killing of a baby under the conditions show is somehow justifiable.

The more heart one has while reading scriptures, the more one will see how vile and immoral that God is.

Christians read with greedy and self-centred redemption in mind and that is why they do not see or ignore the immorality of the p**** of a God they adore.

If the rules of the bible where good as you say, then Christians would not have had to murder so many to have their religion be the one forced on the West.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

Anyway...I believe killing a child raper is a good thing...in the same way that excising a cancer is a good thing.

Okay Henry, if killing cancer and child rapers are 'good' things to do, then why not manufacture such things in order to bring about goodness?

Give people cancer, so we can be good and cure it. Allow pedo's to be alone with children, so we can come in a few minutes later and save the child.

Do you see how ludicrous that sounds? I am trying to make a point so you can see how far we have separated ourselves from being able to discern good from bad. Literally, we have no idea what good is anymore because we have diluted the word.

We love stories where we have won a fight. We eat them up like candy. But those stories are not 'good' stories. It only because we want to be seen as heroes that we make them 'good'.

Did you ever see the movie 'devils advocate'. At the end, the guy finally does the right thing and decides not to defend the criminal. and then lo and behold he is a hero in the media...and he is proud. Just like that, he makes the switch from goodness to a darker path. Why, you may ask, is it a darker path to be proud of media attention for your acts of goodness. Because it makes us complacent in our understanding of what it means to be good. It makes us 'stage' things in a way where we need to start inventing 'bad guys' to conquer so that we may be 'good'.

There is never going to be an end to bad people until there is no more people, but I think we are to the point of perpetuating/manufacturing evil so we can be heroes.

All I am saying, is perhaps we could think a little deeper when it comes to understanding what it means to 'be' good.

I had to laugh at your reverse thinking of creating evil so that good could come of it.

I did not bother trying to find the verses but the bible says exactly that. That the law has to be broken so that God's goodness can be seen. I think it was in Paul's gospel so I do agree that it is a really stupid way to think yet that is what Christians believe.

I do have this that speaks to this.

“Be a sinner and sin strongly, but more strongly have faith and rejoice in Christ.”
Martin Luther

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

Art,

Define 'good'.

I think mebbe we're talkin' past one another, mostly cuz we don't have a common definition.

If I may.

Good is a subjective judgement and means whatever I like.

Regards
DL

[Hobbes' Choice]

I had to laugh at your reverse thinking of creating evil so that good could come of it.
Regards
DL

The assertion that God has created evil so that we understand and can appreciate good; is equally a valid argument to one that asserts that good has only been created so that we can really feel the evil that god has planned for us.

There is no difference here.

[Greatest I am]

I had to laugh at your reverse thinking of creating evil so that good could come of it.
Regards
DL

The assertion that God has created evil so that we understand and can appreciate good; is equally a valid argument to one that asserts that good has only been created so that we can really feel the evil that god has planned for us.

There is no difference here.

Indeed.

It is like saying that we have to beat our wives now and again just so they know how good it feels not to be beat.

And Christians do not give their heads a shake over such idiocy.

Regards
DL