Philosophy Now Forum

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

alpha wrote:

marjoram_blues wrote:The second is dogmatic. It is not about the concept or feeling of 'Serenity'. It talks about a certain or a serene 'truth' as a result of some 'realisation'. I disagree with this too. There is not one 'truth', serene or otherwise. There is not 'the only way we can talk about a serene feeling'. Each one of us has our own 'truth' ( in accordance with our own reality/experience ) which can change, be uncertain and may or may not lead to 'Serenity'.

do you believe in relative truth, mb? if i believe it's daytime, and my neighbor believes it's nighttime, we're both right in some way?

That is a childish caricature of relative truth.
This is what I'm talking about, your need to belittle one, to boost yourself, it is not childish. Maybe naive, and maybe even a lot more kinder expressions could be used that are far more accurate. Your selfish characterizations really just proof of your inability to understand the truth of things, that you lack wisdom. THIS IS JUST YOUR WAY TO STROKE YOURSELF, YES ACTING LIKE A CHILD INDEED YOU ARE! GROW UP AND BE A MAN, BOY. I do really feel sorry for your, I'm sure, EX-students, if you actually ever really had any in the first place.

In fact it is always both daytime and nighttime on planet earth at the exact same time.

Fact is that two people can know that and they both can be right

SpheresOfBalance wrote:Thanks for the refresher, It's been a long time, and I'm getting much older, more so than my actual years, relatively speaking of course.

The reason that we speak seemingly different languages, is probably due to the differences in our concepts, of the truth of both life and the human condition. Each human often leaves traces of those concepts unmentioned in their dialog, believing they go without saying, that everyone is surely aware of them, not understanding that another has a totally different set, in which they feel the same way. That's why you have a hard time understanding how my dialog has anything to do with what you're saying. It's neither you nor I that is the problem, yet it's our dialects, if you will, that is. It's often either about age, I'm 58, or it's to do with environment, the differences between that which we have had exposure; knowledge and beliefs. I have seen it many many times in my years. Often I have noticed that people can actually be saying the 'exact' same thing, believing they are 180 degrees in opposition, simply because they are phrasing things in entirely different ways. This is one of the reasons one should always be respectful of another's dialog, as it can always be simply a matter of misunderstanding on both parties parts.

you have a point.


I can see one thing for certain in you responses. You are very even keeled when it comes to your tolerance of others,

thanks.


because I know I can come off as somewhat abrasive, when in fact it's only the way I express the degree of certainty in those unmentioned concepts, that I've eluded to above. I'm definitely not, "run of the mill." You?

i'm not even "walk of the mill".


Peace, my friend!

likewise. btw, happy birthday. i saw that it was your birthday (on the index page) one or two days ago.

SpheresOfBalance wrote:In fact it is always both daytime and nighttime on planet earth at the exact same time.

alpha wrote:

SpheresOfBalance wrote:Thanks for the refresher, It's been a long time, and I'm getting much older, more so than my actual years, relatively speaking of course.

The reason that we speak seemingly different languages, is probably due to the differences in our concepts, of the truth of both life and the human condition. Each human often leaves traces of those concepts unmentioned in their dialog, believing they go without saying, that everyone is surely aware of them, not understanding that another has a totally different set, in which they feel the same way. That's why you have a hard time understanding how my dialog has anything to do with what you're saying. It's neither you nor I that is the problem, yet it's our dialects, if you will, that is. It's often either about age, I'm 58, or it's to do with environment, the differences between that which we have had exposure; knowledge and beliefs. I have seen it many many times in my years. Often I have noticed that people can actually be saying the 'exact' same thing, believing they are 180 degrees in opposition, simply because they are phrasing things in entirely different ways. This is one of the reasons one should always be respectful of another's dialog, as it can always be simply a matter of misunderstanding on both parties parts.

you have a point.


I can see one thing for certain in you responses. You are very even keeled when it comes to your tolerance of others,

thanks.


because I know I can come off as somewhat abrasive, when in fact it's only the way I express the degree of certainty in those unmentioned concepts, that I've eluded to above. I'm definitely not, "run of the mill." You?

i'm not even "walk of the mill".


Peace, my friend!

likewise. btw, happy birthday. i saw that it was your birthday (on the index page) one or two days ago.

alpha wrote:

SpheresOfBalance wrote:In fact it is always both daytime and nighttime on planet earth at the exact same time.

i meant, can it be both night and day on the same side of the planet, such as in the same city? that's why i said "my neighbor".

SpheresOfBalance wrote:

alpha wrote:

SpheresOfBalance wrote:In fact it is always both daytime and nighttime on planet earth at the exact same time.

i meant, can it be both night and day on the same side of the planet, such as in the same city? that's why i said "my neighbor".

And I agree, because one can work the day-shift, and one can work the grave-shift. And to each relatively speaking, ones day is the others night.

let me rephrase; if i point to the sun at noon, and say "that is the sun", and my neighbor points to it and says "that is the moon", one of us must be completely wrong, right?


HC usually has a hard-on for someone or another. His ability to jump to conclusions, a testament to his lack of understanding in the way that I have outlined above, about the differences in which we speak of things. He's just lucky he doesn't live next door and I know it, as I'd watch his face turn fifty shades of red, with embarrassment.

embarrassment requires intelligence, though.

Jaded Sage wrote:You're captain for this ship now, mb. I'm not sure I can make anything productive of these scally-wags. Arg!

We were so close to actual philosophy!

SpheresOfBalance wrote:In fact it is always both daytime and nighttime on planet earth at the exact same time.

alpha wrote:

SpheresOfBalance wrote:

alpha wrote: i meant, can it be both night and day on the same side of the planet, such as in the same city? that's why i said "my neighbor".

And I agree, because one can work the day-shift, and one can work the grave-shift. And to each relatively speaking, ones day is the others night.

let me rephrase; if i point to the sun at noon, and say "that is the sun", and my neighbor points to it and says "that is the moon", one of us must be completely wrong, right?

alpha, I really don't know how you go from the below to that which is above? Care to expound on how one does so?

alpha wrote:do you believe in relative truth, mb? if i believe it's daytime, and my neighbor believes it's nighttime, we're both right in some way?

Here's what I dug up on the matter:

"Relativism is the concept that points of view have no absolute truth or validity, having only relative, subjective value according to differences in perception and consideration..." "...The term often refers to truth relativism, which is the doctrine that there are no absolute truths, i.e., that truth is always relative to some particular frame of reference, such as a language or a culture (cultural relativism)."
Which surely seems to defy your belief that everything is certain, unless that's the point you were trying to make, in an extremely unclear manor. Again, the differences between us...?

As to the question of whether there is or is not a god though, no one can necessarily prove either case. Merely belief one way or the other surely pleads the case of relativism, that there are no absolute truths in that matter.

HC usually has a hard-on for someone or another. His ability to jump to conclusions, a testament to his lack of understanding in the way that I have outlined above, about the differences in which we speak of things. He's just lucky he doesn't live next door and I know it, as I'd watch his face turn fifty shades of red, with embarrassment.

embarrassment requires intelligence, though.

SpheresOfBalance wrote:As to the topic at hand:

serenity [suh-ren-i-tee]
noun
1. the state or quality of being serene, calm, or tranquil; sereneness.

So yes, that noting is a waste of time, could be one consideration, to induce tranquility, though there are a great many things that disturb a great many people, increasing their stress, thus reducing their ability to find tranquility.

Should we create a list?

Relativism is the concept that points of view have no absolute truth or validity, having only relative, subjective value according to differences in perception and consideration..." "...The term often refers to truth relativism, which is the doctrine that there are no absolute truths, i.e., that truth is always relative to some particular frame of reference, such as a language or a culture (cultural relativism).

alpha wrote:@ spheres;

forget about the other question, just address this one: if i point to the sun at noon, and say "that is the sun", and my neighbor points to it and says "that is the moon", one of us must be completely wrong, right?
It depends upon, in which context it was uttered! One could mean it literally, metaphorically, ironically, etc. To assume it's any one of those, as opposed to another, or quite possibly various others, that I have yet to mention, is selling ones actual meaning short.

If ones meaning seems contextually ambiguous the other should ensure it's made clear before responding as if certain, otherwise they're at fault.

So one isn't necessarily speaking the absolute truth, in their response to any one, of potentially multitudes of meaning, as if the one they selected was necessarily correct, absolutely true! Rather one should remain in a state of wonder as to which was actually meant until certain, then respond accordingly.

There's your relativism.

this question is to demonstrate that relativism is false;
No, rather my explanation above shows that in fact relativism exists, that what is absolute, in terms of any particular humans meaning, is not necessarily discernible, unless one is contextually aware, which requires the same knowledge as the one that intended the meaning.

See below the text which I've highlighted in green.

Relativism is the concept that points of view have no absolute truth or validity, having only relative, subjective value according to differences in perception and consideration..." "...The term often refers to truth relativism, which is the doctrine that there are no absolute truths, i.e., that truth is always relative to some particular frame of reference, such as a language or a culture (cultural relativism).

Or the way in which someone means something.

either me, or my neighbor are absolutely right, and the other absolutely wrong. either my statement, or my neighbor's is absolutely true, and the other's absolutely false.
That's funny because I can see that a neighbor might say such a thing, meaning it in other than a literal way, in which case it would be the one that took it literally that was absolutely wrong in their assumption that it was meant literally. Showing relativism exists, as per the wikipedia definition above.

alpha wrote:

marjoram_blues wrote:The second is dogmatic. It is not about the concept or feeling of 'Serenity'. It talks about a certain or a serene 'truth' as a result of some 'realisation'. I disagree with this too. There is not one 'truth', serene or otherwise. There is not 'the only way we can talk about a serene feeling'. Each one of us has our own 'truth' ( in accordance with our own reality/experience ) which can change, be uncertain and may or may not lead to 'Serenity'.

do you believe in relative truth, mb? if i believe it's daytime, and my neighbor believes it's nighttime, we're both right in some way?

alpha wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

alpha wrote:do you believe in relative truth, mb? if i believe it's daytime, and my neighbor believes it's nighttime, we're both right in some way?

That is a childish caricature of relative truth.

Fact is that two people can know that and they both can be right

either that is not in english, or i'm just too "childish" to make any sense of it.